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Re: Credible News Sources
Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:47 am
by Bootstrap
Robert wrote:Bootstrap wrote:I wouldn't trust CNN, MSNBC, or Fox in general.
Nor do I trust NYT, NPR, CBS, NBC, ABC, AP, or Reuters. I have seen each of these cross from reporting to distorting news.
All of these news sources are in That Other Kingdom, no source mentioned on that diagram is part of the Kingdom of God. Not one of these sources is credible for telling Kingdom Christians how to live as foreign aliens in this world.
Yet most people spend more time soaking in the news than soaking in Scripture or praying, and people often cling to political factions with religious zeal. If we are going to do that, we should do it very critically, not trusting any one news source, taking the time to compare. Not everyone is called to this, not everyone has the skills or time needed to do this, I suspect none of us has the time to do this for every important news story.
I think our starting point with most news stories should be "I heard this in the news, I'm not sure if it's true, the story will certainly evolve over time, and I should be careful about the emotional bait that many news outlets associate with news, fitting everything into their narratives about who we should like and who we should hate. Before getting all excited, is this important to me as a Kingdom Christian?"
If it is important, I think the next question should be "How can I get the whole story and see where the truth lies? How much time and effort do I have to do that? What are the various points of view shown in different media sources, and what evidence do they provide for each view? What is my goal in trying to understand this in depth?"
Re: Credible News Sources
Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:57 am
by Bootstrap
Here's the short version of that last post.
I often feel that someone is saying, "I read this in a news outlet that I am loyal to, and I believe it. All true Christians must agree with me." Sometimes people will even attack the character or faith of someone who disagrees with them politically.
I think that's divisive and foolish. News stories and politicians don't define the Kingdom of God. If it's important to know the truth behind a news story, we need a lot of time to look at it slowly. And for us, the critical question is always how we should live in this world as Kingdom Christians, foreign aliens who are not loyal to the factions or news outlets of this world.
That's the reason for a lot of my posts on current events and politics.
Re: Credible News Sources
Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:11 am
by temporal1
temporal1 wrote:who is this woman, and how is it her obsolete chart has received a day's discussion on MN?
a better worded question for this thread: Is Vanessa Otero a credible news source?
Re: Credible News Sources
Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:05 am
by Bootstrap
temporal1 wrote:temporal1 wrote:who is this woman, and how is it her obsolete chart has received a day's discussion on MN?
a better worded question for this thread: Is Vanessa Otero a credible news source?
No, and she does not claim to be. Here's her
December 12th, 2016 post, which contains a version of the same graphic. Here's an excerpt:
We are living in a time where we have more information available to each of us than ever before in history. However, we are not all proficient at distinguishing between good information and bad information. This is true for liberal, moderate, and conservative people. I submit that these two circumstances are highly related to why our country is so politically polarized at the moment.
Why is it that I can have such different views on the same subject or topic as someone else who lives in the same country? Take the polarizing example of people’s opinions on Hillary. Why do I think she is qualified and inspiring but others think she is literally evil incarnate? I don’t know her personally. And neither do you. We must both admit that our opinions of her are informed by the news sources we read and believe. And news sources vary widely in what they report.
Which news sources should we believe, when there are so many to choose from, and each one is telling you not to believe another one? I put together this chart of which news sources I think you should use and which ones you should not. If you value my opinion as someone who both is reasonable and well-informed, you may find it helpful. If you don’t really care what I think, it will be useless to you. These are my subjective opinions based on having read many news stories from each of the listed sites. The only credibility or authority I can claim in this regard is that I read and write analytically for a living.
Before you look at the chart, I’d like to address the fact that many people object to media sources on the basis that they are “mainstream.” They say “I don’t believe the mainstream media! They are owned by big corporations and do things for money!” But where did they get that idea? From another media source. Remember that each media source has their own incentives (like monetary ones) to get people to listen to them and not to someone else. You have to evaluate media based on something other than the fact that one source told you not to listen to another source.
Remember that journalism is a professional and academic field with a set of agreed-upon standards. People get degrees in it and people who are really good at it get jobs in it at good organizations. Peer review helps ensure mainstream sources adhere to standards; if a story doesn’t meet those standards, other news outlets report on that. Not believing the mainstream media just because it is mainstream is like not believing a mainstream doctor or a mainstream lawyer. Sure, you should question and rate the quality of what the newspaper, doctor, or lawyer says, but you shouldn’t dismiss them out of hand because the paper is big, the doctor works at a hospital, or the lawyer works at a firm.
Re: Credible News Sources
Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:07 am
by Bootstrap
She also provided a version of her graphic that everyone can agree with. This one just gives you the bubbles - which sources would you put in each bubble, and why? Even if you would categorize particular sources differently, do you agree that these categories are useful?
Is there a way to measure whether you are right? What gives you confidence that you know the answer?
Re: Credible News Sources
Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:15 am
by MaxPC
Re: Credible News Sources
Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:20 am
by Bootstrap
MaxPC wrote:18 pages and counting
Trying to shut down the conversation? Why?
Re: Credible News Sources
Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:27 am
by Bootstrap
temporal1 wrote:temporal1 wrote:who is this woman, and how is it her obsolete chart has received a day's discussion on MN?
a better worded question for this thread: Is Vanessa Otero a credible news source?
She's a thoughtful person whose analysis has gotten some of us thinking. She may be right, she may be wrong, that's why we are discussing this.
But here's the more important question: Who are we? What is our relationship to the various media we consume? How do we choose what to pay attention to and what to believe? Are we loyal foot soldiers for some political faction in the culture wars, or are we really seeking first the Kingdom of God?
Those are the kinds of questions that result in 18 pages of discussion.
Re: Credible News Sources
Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:57 am
by Josh
I would say that I would find news sources best that don't take an overall editorial position that men can become women
Unfortunately, that shuts me out of a lot of "credible news" sources. I don't think that's taking a side in the culture wars, but if something as basic as how God created us make and female eludes a writer, how can I trust anything else they say?
Re: Credible News Sources
Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:05 pm
by Bootstrap
Josh wrote:I would say that I would find news sources best that don't take an overall editorial position that men can become women
Unfortunately, that shuts me out of a lot of "credible news" sources. I don't think that's taking a side in the culture wars, but if something as basic as how God created us make and female eludes a writer, how can I trust anything else they say?
By that standard, we should probably ignore all news sources. Every one of them has values deeply at odds with what we believe in our Kingdom. Do you prefer a news channel that preaches about morality while requiring women to wear short skirts and using a special camera to make sure viewers get a good view of their legs, with a CEO who sexually harasses these women, asking for sexual favors in return for advancing their career? Or a news channel with links to white supremacists?
The best we can hope for is that a news source gives us enough information that we can verify what is true or false. A good accountant is one who shows his work so that you can tell if it is correct or not.
