Education

Events occurring and how they relate/affect Anabaptist faith and culture.
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Josh
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Education

Post by Josh »

KingdomBuilder wrote:
temporal1 wrote:...the "government indoctrination centers" need a big overhaul, Pre-K through college. the focus must be on balanced, critical thinking; and, quality of education, not "free" education.
Those are some very strong beliefs. What is your basis for feeling this way? What issues are you referring to? What do you suggest be changed?
Something some Mennonites do is set up schools both for their own members and for the community too. In addition to a great education there is an opportunity for spiritual formation. Some of the kids join the church when they grow up, and often fit into the church very well and marry someone also in the church.

This is a great alternative to trying to overhaul the big, broken public education system. A few Mennonite groups doing this, if you want to learn more:

- Pilgrim Mennonite Conference

- Western Cons. Menn. Fellowship

- Keystone Menn. Fellowship

- Beachy Amish

- Midwest Menn. Fellowship

Those are just the ones I personally know of where I have met outsiders who got educated in the school and are now church members - there are probably other conferences and fellowships doing this as well!
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KingdomBuilder
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Re: Education

Post by KingdomBuilder »

Sounds pretty great... How are these schools staffed?
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Haystack
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Re: Education

Post by Haystack »

What types of education are we talking about? Just normal everyday school education or vocational/life skills training as well?
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temporal1
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Re: Education

Post by temporal1 »

i appreciate this thread, Josh.
there are now so many alternate schools.
it makes me wonder what the government does with "all-that-money" we all pay for public schools, when so many children do not attend?! ..

families who choose alternatives receive no discount for public school taxes.
it's a total extra commitment of both time and money out of their pockets.
major commitment.

i do not want to bunny trail this thread, at all.
just something i wonder about.

i have no idea how to remedy, 'cause, i agree, it's not an acceptable idea to take anything from government, because then government takes control!

still, in the U.S. system of government, they should be accountable to taxpayers for how they distribute public funds.
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Bootstrap
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Re: Education

Post by Bootstrap »

Josh wrote:Something some Mennonites do is set up schools both for their own members and for the community too. In addition to a great education there is an opportunity for spiritual formation. Some of the kids join the church when they grow up, and often fit into the church very well and marry someone also in the church.
This is great! Is any of this happening outside of Mennonite strongholds, e.g. in inner cities?
Josh wrote:This is a great alternative to trying to overhaul the big, broken public education system.
I see this as a both-and. That Other Kingdom really needs to work on overhauling the public education system, which is worst for the people who need it the most.
temporal1 wrote:still, in the U.S. system of government, they should be accountable to taxpayers for how they distribute public funds.
Absolutely. But the parties are two busy waging war to sit down and prioritize our problems together. Neither party is going to be able to solve our problems alone, neither party has all the good ideas. If That Other Kingdom doesn't start to treat this problem seriously, it will continue to get worse.

I'd love to see us create more private schools where the public schools are worst.
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KingdomBuilder
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Re: Education

Post by KingdomBuilder »

Around here private schools are minimal. And some of them are notoriously bad, and the good ones are notoriously expensive (and Catholic...). Generally, where I'm at, the public schools are held in higher regard. That's not to say we don't have some had school districts.

If a parents wants children to get a better education, it's more likely that they'll move to on of the top-notch school districts.

Sounds like y'all have a better system of alternative schooling.
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temporal1
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Re: Education

Post by temporal1 »

KingdomBuilder wrote:Around here private schools are minimal. And some of them are notoriously bad, and the good ones are notoriously expensive (and Catholic...). Generally, where I'm at, the public schools are held in higher regard. That's not to say we don't have some had school districts.

If a parents wants children to get a better education, it's more likely that they'll move to on of the top-notch school districts.

Sounds like y'all have a better system of alternative schooling.
public schools do vary!
but, all are subject to state and federal mandates, this has become a real problem for many.

my daughter is struggling mightily with this right now.
they live in an area that claims to be of the best! that does not exclude them from gov mandates.

a recent example of (disgusting) in their (high-brow) location:
the local high school theater group is featuring a play titled, "Urinetown." :evil:

it's billed as being about the unfair nature of poor folks having to "pay to pee," in those words.
further, the play is featured on the local elementary school website to encourage attendance.
the play director has a woman's name.

i told my daughter .. if that's the best "one of the best high schools in the country" can come up with for its students: no thanks.
not only is the language and subject gratuitously disgusting, it's another example of pushing biased politics onto school children - not of voting age. (thus, "indoctrination.")

i hope the play is poorly attended.
i feel sorry for the children involved. they deserve better.
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temporal1
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Re: Education

Post by temporal1 »

KingdomBuilder wrote:Around here private schools are minimal.
And some of them are notoriously bad, and the good ones are notoriously expensive (and Catholic...).

Generally, where I'm at, the public schools are held in higher regard.
That's not to say we don't have some [bad] school districts.

If a parents wants children to get a better education, it's more likely that they'll move to on of the top-notch school districts.

Sounds like y'all have a better system of alternative schooling.
you have several points -
1. more money does not guaranty better quality. gov is "notorious" for wasteful spending.
many insightful leaders came out of rural one room schoolhouses;
2. for those invested in public schools, and many who have no knowledge of them, there is a bias against home schools and private schools (be careful who you listen to;)
3. popular notions of school "status" can be deceiving. if your child happens to be in a school labeled as "good," but does not get matched with an effective teacher for him/her, the label doesn't mean much. conversely, there are effective teachers in schools labeled as "bad." labels have limitations, both ways.
4. regarding expensive private schools/Catholic schools .. they often offer ways to help with costs, esp based on need. i suppose each school determines what it can offer.

at my granddaughter's Catholic elementary school, they consider household income, financial obligations (not luxuries!) .. they also highly encourage parents and family members to volunteer, to be active in the school, much of this can count as credit to help with tuition. it varies somewhat, they determine a budget each year.

the children wear uniforms, the school offers "uniform exchange" days for families, this can really help with costs! esp in comparison with no uniforms. i believe they offer more for hardship situations. families help each other, too.

i'm all-for family participation in schools, this is something private schools are free to require, public schools suffer because they can only request parents' presence, many are never present .. often because they are intimidated, which is unfortunate (for all.)

we never used uniforms in the past, but we are very happy with everything about it. no down side, for us.

considering my family's wealthy but thoroughly liberal location, we are grateful for this traditional Catholic school. they represent an oasis in the middle of extreme self-indulgence, and self-delusion (my opinion.)

to my knowledge, i don't believe anyone in our families ever attended Catholic schools. i'm grateful my elders have passed, this would be very hard for them.

but, repeating.
as things are today, i am grateful this school is available in this location.
i can only imagine the battles this church and school must face from the surrounding communities.
they never mention! but, i was not born yesterday.

i know of no one who does not want more Mennonite schools. :D
i'm fortunate that way.
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with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


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Bootstrap
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Re: Education

Post by Bootstrap »

KingdomBuilder wrote:Around here private schools are minimal. And some of them are notoriously bad, and the good ones are notoriously expensive (and Catholic...). Generally, where I'm at, the public schools are held in higher regard. That's not to say we don't have some had school districts.

If a parents wants children to get a better education, it's more likely that they'll move to on of the top-notch school districts.

Sounds like y'all have a better system of alternative schooling.
Where I live, there's a combination. Starting at about $18,000 / year you can get excellent private schools. There are a variety of private schools that are cheaper, but most of them seem to be low quality. Two of the local public high schools are highly ranked nationally for academics. One of them is really lousy. One is in between. A lot of the public middle schools are concerning.

So you get good schooling by (1) winning the lottery to get into one of the two best high schools, or (2) paying $18,000 / student. They do have scholarships for lower income students, but they can't afford to carry too many of them. I don't know of affordable local schools that are also good. There used to be one, I sent my daughter to one, but they went out of business.
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Josh
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Re: Education

Post by Josh »

KingdomBuilder wrote:Sounds pretty great... How are these schools staffed?
It is a common option when graduating high school to go start teaching the younger grades. Typically since they can't pay too much someone in the church provides a place to live / meals etc, if a teacher moves in front outside of the community. Teachers for older grades are more likely to be married men but there are no hard and fast rules about that.

The school board will be composed of respected men in the church - often businessmen. They help get fundraisers going like auctions or BBQ sales. These events are really popular in the community. Trash a thons are popular too with local businesses and private individuals pitching in a dollar or two for each mile or tonne of rubbish taken off the streets.

The schoolmaster or schoolmistress is usually a bit older - might be a grandmother who has the free time or a retired man. Some schools have a principal which is a paid position who is also one of the ministers of the church, so he is "bi-vocational".
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