Antifa

Events occurring and how they relate/affect Anabaptist faith and culture.
temporal1
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Re: Antifa

Postby temporal1 » Sun Aug 20, 2017 7:33 am

Dan Z wrote:
    1) Let's live and articulate our faith in such a way that there is no doubt that Christ calls us to affirm the intrinsic (sacred) value of every one of God's children. Before I would say anything, I would hope people would think - "I know Dan and how he lives. He takes Jesus' teaching literally. His beliefs would never allow him to approve of Neo-Nazis, white militia, that 'blood and soil' garbage, or any other forms of violence, racism, or oppression." "Oh, and I also know he would say that Jesus wouldn't have much appreciation for those club wielding Antifa anarchists and their rebellious "black bloc" tactics."

    :arrow: 2) This issue is so politicized -
    like GaryK said, entering in with an opinion gets you accused of "taking sides" - which I really don't want to do. On the other hand, having no opinion on public issues of morality is keeping your light under a bushel. People need to understand WWJD so they can know Jesus better - so while I try to stay as politically unattached as possible, I do speak speak mainly to moral issues (in a spiritual context) - wherever the ideological chips may fall. "White supremacy - wrong " - "Violence - wrong" - "Looting - wrong" - "Angry shouting - wrong" - "Standing with the oppressed, the poor, the mistreated, the marginalized - absolutely."

    3) Frankly, I think it is a much better witness to be proactive rather than reactive.
    Rather than fighting against white supremacists or anarchistic activists, I could be extending Christ's love and friendship to those of other ethnicities.
    Not saying we shouldn't speak out - but our actions will speak the loudest.
Today, what is not politicized?! Somehow, i wish folks would recognize that politicizing "everything" is a bad path with no constructive end.

i try to move my own thinking away from politicizing topics by not introducing them under political categories. for instance, on this forum, regarding abortion, or sex+health education, i try to put threads under "home," "other," possibly "general Christian theology," etc., to try think of them and discuss them AWAY from politics.

to me, these are family matters, families should reclaim them from the political arena - and, we should be clear about it. remove personal and family matters FROM politicians, don't go seeking after answers from or through politicians. they are not worthy.
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formerly Temporal1

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Robert
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Re: Antifa

Postby Robert » Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:44 am

0 x
I think I am funnier than I really am.
Just because you are paranoid, doesn't mean they are not after you.

Robert
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Re: Antifa

Postby Robert » Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:59 pm

0 x
I think I am funnier than I really am.
Just because you are paranoid, doesn't mean they are not after you.

Bootstrap
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Re: Antifa

Postby Bootstrap » Sun Aug 20, 2017 6:46 pm



This article claims to be quoting the police, but comes up with very different conclusions than the police did. Here is the reality the police are telling - including the police commissioner that The Blaze said it was quoting:

Boston police commissioner: 99.9 percent of protesters here for right reason

Ninety-nine point nine percent of the people here were here for the right reason, and that's to fight bigotry and hate for the most part here today.


We knew were going to have some people who were going to cause problems and we had to make, the latest is 27 arrests so far today. Most of them disorderly, a couple assault and batteries on police officers and other charges, but I overall I thought we got the first amendment people in, we got them out. No one got hurt, no one got killed.


So I think The Blaze is badly wrong on this, and I wonder why. It's really hard to imagine why they didn't just look at the press releases and press conferences from the Boston Police if they wanted to know what the police thought. The only sources The Blaze drew on were the official Twitter feed and one quote from the commissioner that I just quoted above. If they don't have more information than that, I assume that the official version from the police commissioner is based on more evidence than The Blaze had.

So I think this is a "pants on fire" claim:

As tens of thousands rallied in Boston on Saturday, some for “free speech” and others “against hate,” the dominate media narrative was that those protesting against hate and white supremacy did so peacefully.

However, that’s not true — and it’s quite far from the truth, in fact.


Sorry, it's the other way around. The only sources The Blaze quotes agree with the dominant media narrative. The police commissioner they quote does not agree with the conclusions of The Blaze. I suspect The Blaze has its own dominant narratives and biases.
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Robert
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Re: Antifa

Postby Robert » Sun Aug 20, 2017 7:10 pm

So 33 arrests for a rally of 100 people they were protesting?

Why any arrests? Why did the Boston Police have to don riot control armor AFTER the rally was over?

Why did a person get beat just for wearing something that showed support for Trump?

Why was one man beat up just because his hair cut looked like a Nazi haircut?

Yes, the majority of people were there to protest a free speech rally peacefully. It was a really nice day and Boston has the largest population of college students. For most it was party on.

Antifa showed up also.

Image
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I think I am funnier than I really am.
Just because you are paranoid, doesn't mean they are not after you.

Bootstrap
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Re: Antifa

Postby Bootstrap » Sun Aug 20, 2017 7:11 pm



OK, here's the obvious question. Who controls this twitter account?

https://twitter.com/AntifaBoston

Obviously, they are saying objectionable things. And the pinned tweet you post is designed to outrage people.

Is it really an account belonging to Antifa, or is it an account set up by someone else to make them look bad? I'm thinking of various Donald Trump twitter accounts designed to fool people. So before getting too excited, I would like to know more about this Twitter account.

I tried looking for other Antifa twitter accounts, and found Philly's Antifa reporting a fake account used to misrepresent them in just this way:

https://twitter.com/PhillyANTIFA

Interesting. So I tried googling "Boston antifa twitter fake", and came up with a bunch of information on this:

https://itsgoingdown.org/eugene-alt-right-trolls-behind-boston-antifa-exposed/

Notice how many Alt-Right neo-Nazis are liking their posts? There is a reason for that.

‘Boston Antifa’ tried to present themselves as an offshoot of antifa, who wanted to “reform” the movement. They used photos and video clips taken from actual Boston Antifa actions and used them as their own in their videos, and they often targeted Boston’s North Shore Antifa as being provocateurs or alt-right trolls. For the majority of our comrades, there was no confusion as to North Shore’s legitimacy and the Boston Antifa page being run by trolls, but for the alt-right fucks that thought they were legit and the many folks who unknowingly interacted with these people, we hate to say it: we told you so.

Thanks to the outstanding work of our comrades in our tech team, we are happy to present to you the personal information of the fascist troll couple “Dustin” and “Quinn” behind the fake Boston Antifa accounts.


See the above link for details.

Hmmmm. Wasn't Haithabu just talking about the Reichstag fire? With any media source, it's worth carefully verifying before accepting it as gospel truth. They all have their biases. The Blaze is no exception.
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Robert
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Re: Antifa

Postby Robert » Sun Aug 20, 2017 7:18 pm

Robert wrote:So 33 arrests for a rally of 100 people they were protesting?

Why any arrests? Why did the Boston Police have to don riot control armor AFTER the rally was over?

Why did a person get beat just for wearing something that showed support for Trump?

Why was one man beat up just because his hair cut looked like a Nazi haircut?


I find it interesting you are working hard to defend a group like Antifa.
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I think I am funnier than I really am.
Just because you are paranoid, doesn't mean they are not after you.

Robert
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Re: Antifa

Postby Robert » Sun Aug 20, 2017 7:28 pm

Bootstrap wrote:OK, here's the obvious question. Who controls this twitter account?

https://twitter.com/AntifaBoston


Image

Well, whoever set it up is either Antifa or some genius who knew they would need to do this back in February of 2017.
0 x
I think I am funnier than I really am.
Just because you are paranoid, doesn't mean they are not after you.

Bootstrap
Posts: 2303
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:59 am
Affiliation: Kingdom Christian

Re: Antifa

Postby Bootstrap » Sun Aug 20, 2017 7:28 pm

Robert wrote:I find it interesting you are working hard to defend a group like Antifa.


I don't think I am. Look at the original post, for instance. I am against Antifa.

On the other hand, I am steering you to the Boston Police Department if you want to know what they say happened at the rally. And I am suggesting that you verify Twitter accounts before claiming they represent a group, since there are a lot of Twitter accounts set up by trolls. And it does look like online groups claiming to be Antifa are calling that Boston account a fake, naming the people they say are responsible for it.

I'm defending the use of reliable sources of information when rival groups are trying to make the other look worse. Your last few posts don't seem to be based on reliable information.
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Bootstrap
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Re: Antifa

Postby Bootstrap » Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:38 pm

More information on the fake Antifa account is here:

https://northshoreantifa.wordpress.com/2017/04/05/alt-right-troll-couple-dustin-quinn-of-fake-boston-antifa-exposed/

And if you want information that comes from Antifa in the Boston area, you can look at https://northshoreantifa.wordpress.com.

I think that it's true to say that Antifa is largely comprised of anarchists and communists, and that they believe in using violence to fight fascism. I think it is also true to say that they pour fuel on the fire. That's the same story that the OP tells. That's not what we stand for, and we can't be part of that.

But I also think that some people are making really exaggerated and hysterical claims, creating fake Twitter accounts, etc. That tells me we need to be wary of both sides, and careful to check facts. Or just assume that much of what you hear may not be true, and avoid putting too much weight on thin ice.
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