White supremacy angers Jesus, but does it anger his church?

Events occurring and how they relate/affect Anabaptist faith and culture.
haithabu
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Re: White supremacy angers Jesus, but does it anger his church?

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Bootstrap
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Re: White supremacy angers Jesus, but does it anger his church?

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Me too.
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Robert
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Re: White supremacy angers Jesus, but does it anger his church?

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PeterG wrote: It is evil to kill another human being.
I agree. I also think it is evil to minimize another human being, especially the ones you disagree with.

Jesus speaks directly to this. Love your enemies.

Loving your enemies does two things. One, it keeps you form minimizing them to a sub class. Two, it encourages one to work towards a relationship instead of fighting against an adversary.

As soon as I say Antifa, Nazis, Russians, minorities, or women are lesser of a human, I then am elevating myself as more important and giving excuse for mistreatment of them.

I totally detest what the NW stand for but I would shield one with my body if needed. I totally disagree with what Antifa does, but I would shield one with my body if needed.

Many wars and war crimes come from one side justifying their actions because of the actions of the others. We have to bomb North Korea or they will bomb us. We have to stop Hitler or he will come kill us. We must target illegal immigrants and run them out of our country.

All sin and fall short of the glory of God. None of us should be pardoned for our actions. As soon as we target any group as more deserving of punishment, we start down the path of minimizing them. We often justify our revulsion of things like white supremacy by finding a way to knock down the person who we perceive as projecting it.

When two sides are fighting, the first thing is to stop the fight. If we start saying one side should stop because they are more evil, the other side will become more emboldened and increase their attacks. We are not reducing the amount of violence, just shifting it.

Saying "The president didn't say what I wanted him to say and I think he is a white supremacist" Is throwing fuel on the fire. I wish he would have said what he said Monday on Saturday, but he said what he said. I watched a video last night of him denouncing the WN groups about 20 times over 10 years. The media and his political adversaries are carrying a false narrative that he has not or will not denounce them. It IS fake news. It emboldens him and he is stubborn and likes a fight, so he fights back by saying less, as he did Tuesday.

The challenge is, as we have seen even here on this topic, people only hear what they have already decided is being said. We are not listening, asking questions and moving the dialogue forward towards peace. I say we, because I am sure I am totally involved in the lack of forward movement.

I am no saint> I see my sins and shortcomings. I feel in no place to judge others, be it the President, WN or Antifa. I bet I could sit down with each and understand why they react like they do. Again, understand is not support or agree, but understand what brought them to that point in life. I doubt any of the three would care enough to try to understand what and where I come from. If I determine my actions based on theirs, then I am not living by the "Rules for Christians." I have to work to act despite their actions. I have to work to act despite others posts too. I am not there yet, but working on it.
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Robert
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Re: White supremacy angers Jesus, but does it anger his church?

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Bootstrap wrote:
Me too.
Is this not saying we will only protect you if you do just what we want?

I say defend them as a group, but if someone uses one on another human, they should be arrested and tried.
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Bootstrap
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Re: White supremacy angers Jesus, but does it anger his church?

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Robert wrote:When two sides are fighting, the first thing is to stop the fight. If we start saying one side should stop because they are more evil, the other side will become more emboldened and increase their attacks. We are not reducing the amount of violence, just shifting it.
I agree with that.
Robert wrote:Saying "The president didn't say what I wanted him to say and I think he is a white supremacist" Is throwing fuel on the fire.
I said the first part of that. There are standard ways of responding to this kind of situation that have worked well in the past. I think he would do well to use them.

I also said the president needs to clearly distance himself from white supremacists who claim their program is the same as his program. If they are saying that, he needs to say it is not true. There should be no doubt.

I don't think the CEO of Fox, most Republicans, the joint chiefs of staff, or the members of Trump's CEO council are saying he is a a white supremacist. I'm not either. But I'm puzzled when he does not distance himself from them, that's such an obvious thing to do. I don't claim to know what it means, only that it is puzzling.
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Re: White supremacy angers Jesus, but does it anger his church?

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Robert wrote:
Bootstrap wrote:
Me too.
Is this not saying we will only protect you if you do just what we want?

I say defend them as a group, but if someone uses one on another human, they should be arrested and tried.
They are saying "we will not defend protesters in court if they are carrying firearms". I think they apply that to all protesters, regardless of belief. When people are wearing camouflage and carrying weapons openly in protests that seem intimidating, I think that's a really wise decision. After all, intimidation and threats are ways of suppressing free expression too.
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Robert
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Re: White supremacy angers Jesus, but does it anger his church?

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Bootstrap wrote:When people are wearing camouflage and carrying weapons openly in protests that seem intimidating, I think that's a really wise decision. After all, intimidation and threats are ways of suppressing free expression too.
I think Charles Manson deserved a lawyer. If he gets one, I know I will. If his rights are protected, then I know mine will be also.

We are not saying the ACLU should carry guns with them, but it if it legal, like in Texas to open carry, then they are not doing anything illegal. They should be as protected as me who never carries a gun.

I detest the things these people stand for. I denounce their ideology. I value them as a human being with equal rights.
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Robert
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Re: White supremacy angers Jesus, but does it anger his church?

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Bootstrap wrote:I also said the president needs to clearly distance himself from white supremacists who claim their program is the same as his program. If they are saying that, he needs to say it is not true. There should be no doubt.
https://youtu.be/XgtxrCD9iCk
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haithabu
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Re: White supremacy angers Jesus, but does it anger his church?

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ACLU are free to defend who they want - or not.

I think they are being very evenhanded in that they are applying it to all groups who bring weapons to demonstrations.
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Re: White supremacy angers Jesus, but does it anger his church?

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Try hard not to offend. Try harder not to be offended.
Just because you are paranoid, doesn't mean they are not after you.
I think I am funnier than I really am.
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