White supremacy angers Jesus, but does it anger his church?

Events occurring and how they relate/affect Anabaptist faith and culture.
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mike
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Re: White supremacy angers Jesus, but does it anger his church?

Post by mike »

If you want to be careful not to play the false equivalence game, you should probably not say the following:
Bootstrap wrote:Only one side killed one person and injured 19.
One person on one side committed murder. Just like one person from a particular political persuasion committed murder at the recent congressional baseball game.

I am sure that most people who are against the President would prefer not to be made falsely equivalent with such a murderer, or the protesters who destroy property in order to make their statements.

What you say about being careful not to disrespect the peaceful protesters is probably quite true. But again, if you want to characterize things very carefully, you should probably say that most on the white supremacist side would not have driven cars into crowded sidewalks.
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Bootstrap
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Re: White supremacy angers Jesus, but does it anger his church?

Post by Bootstrap »

mike wrote:What you say about being careful not to disrespect the peaceful protesters is probably quite true. But again, if you want to characterize things very carefully, you should probably say that most on the white supremacist side would not have driven cars into crowded sidewalks.
That's fair. I apologize for that.

But if you look at the forums where the organizers planned this event, one side clearly intended to come in with a show of force that would scare people. I don't think that's what most of the protesters intended.
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mike
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Re: White supremacy angers Jesus, but does it anger his church?

Post by mike »

Bootstrap wrote:
mike wrote:What you say about being careful not to disrespect the peaceful protesters is probably quite true. But again, if you want to characterize things very carefully, you should probably say that most on the white supremacist side would not have driven cars into crowded sidewalks.
That's fair. I apologize for that.

But if you look at the forums where the organizers planned this event, one side clearly intended to come in with a show of force that would scare people. I don't think that's what most of the protesters intended.
I can guarantee you that Jesus would not have had part in any such thing. That much I know for sure. About the other side, it is a mixed bag. I just don't know. I can't get excited about what they were doing either.

What if nobody had actually showed up to protest what these evil people were doing? Or even better yet, what about this: what if, instead of protesting them, a group of Christians of all races showed up to their event with sandwiches and bottled water for them, expressing their love to them? What do you think would have happened then? What if this event in Charlottesville would have become a symbol of Christian love and forgiveness toward the hateful and the violent?
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Bootstrap
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Re: White supremacy angers Jesus, but does it anger his church?

Post by Bootstrap »

mike wrote:Or even better yet, what about this: what if, instead of protesting them, a group of Christians of all races showed up to their event with sandwiches and bottled water for them, expressing their love to them? What do you think would have happened then? What if this event in Charlottesville would have become a symbol of Christian love and forgiveness toward the hateful and the violent?
I like that. And I like the way you are thinking.

Or perhaps just have one big church picnic for all the churches in town, with signs proclaiming our unity in Christ. Have it in the park, let anyone who wants join in, avoid confrontation.

Perhaps have a sign saying:
from every nation, tribe, people, and language
Last edited by Bootstrap on Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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mike
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Re: White supremacy angers Jesus, but does it anger his church?

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I have seen that people are trying to identify by name the white supremacists at this event, and have used the information in some instances to have people fired from their jobs.

These kinds of actions ensure that race wars will never end.

What if, instead, a movement began to locate these individuals under the control of a satanic ideology and to show them the love of Christ? What if churches began to creatively reach out to those who are bigoted and racist?
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Bootstrap
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Re: White supremacy angers Jesus, but does it anger his church?

Post by Bootstrap »

mike wrote:I have seen that people are trying to identify by name the white supremacists at this event, and have used the information in some instances to have people fired from their jobs.
Internet shaming and trolling is really scary stuff. It has driven some people to suicide. And there's no such thing as a fair trial. Both sides are using this, and it is alarming.

Christians should have no part of this.
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mike
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Re: White supremacy angers Jesus, but does it anger his church?

Post by mike »

Bootstrap wrote:Or perhaps just have one big church picnic for all the churches in town, with signs proclaiming our unity in Christ. Have it in the park, let anyone who wants join in, avoid confrontation.
That would at least be better than what is happening now, with everybody from the President on down blaming and being blamed for racism and bigotry and fomenting violence, when the fact of the matter is that relatively few people in this country are degraded to the point of the Charlottesville murderer. Stop the wagon - I want off. When the so-called Christians of this country show by their lives that they are interested in following the way of Jesus in life, then I'll get excited about joining their causes and protests for this and for that.
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Remember the prisoners, as though you were in prison with them, and the mistreated, as though you yourselves were suffering bodily. -Heb. 13:3
haithabu
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Re: White supremacy angers Jesus, but does it anger his church?

Post by haithabu »

Bootstrap wrote:
mike wrote:What you say about being careful not to disrespect the peaceful protesters is probably quite true. But again, if you want to characterize things very carefully, you should probably say that most on the white supremacist side would not have driven cars into crowded sidewalks.
That's fair. I apologize for that.

But if you look at the forums where the organizers planned this event, one side clearly intended to come in with a show of force that would scare people. I don't think that's what most of the protesters intended.
My understanding is that the White Nationalist people came armed because they expected to be physically assaulted by the Antifa crowd, and they were not disappointed.

I also have the impression (correct me if I'm wrong) that rather than roaming the streets the WN people stood their ground on their allotted patch until they were ordered to disperse, and that most of the conflicts took place as the counter demonstrators approached them.

It is also notable that as well armed as the WN were, there is no report of firearms being used or even brandished during any of those violent encounters.
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haithabu
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Re: White supremacy angers Jesus, but does it anger his church?

Post by haithabu »

As to the leading question I would ask: should white supremacy anger Jesus any more than any other tribal hatred?

And to, does it anger the church? I would ask did the sicarii movement in Judea anger the Jerusalem church? To which I would suggest not particularly because they felt no ownership of it. They would have recognized it as sinful and antithetical to Jesus' teachings and they did in fact see the conflict it ignited as a harbinger of God's judgment, and made haste to separate themselves from it by putting physical distance between it and themselves (Eusebius).

For me the predominant emotion is not anger at a miniscule Nazi or white supremacist movement which I see as a bogeyman. There are those whose interest is to pump it up as representative of a large segment of the American people but I believe that is false. My main feeling is a somewhat helpless fear that the hatred on both sides might draw others in and ignite into something more truly threatening. I say "helpless" because I am currently going round on FB with a cousin who insists that my concerns on this are no more than a deflection from the really important issue of racism.

But I really do worry that Americans are sleepwalking into a catastrophe. I see a noticeable growth in what I would call "gratuitous hatred", evidenced by a willingness or even eagerness to believe the worst of another person and impute evil motives to them in the absence of any evidence.
Gratuitous Hatred

(Heb. שִׂנְאַת חִנָּם). According to the Talmud gratuitous hatred is the most vicious form of hatred, and the rabbis denounce it in the most extreme terms. In their view the Second Temple was destroyed as punishment for this sin.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/hatred
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Robert
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Re: White supremacy angers Jesus, but does it anger his church?

Post by Robert »

Szdfan wrote: I have, but I don't feel comfortable posting somebody else's FB comments here. I'm not friends with this person, but we have a mutual friend.
That could be done without stating who said it. Seeing an example and language used really can show if it was intended, or perceived by the reader to be racist.

I actually had to unfriend you on facebook today because of the angry hostile posts of you and your friends being made about the president, a human being. I did not vote for him nor am I an avid supporter, but I had no issue with his statement on last Saturday. I thought it was pretty clear and fair. I watched his statement on Monday and could not see why it was so important to say KKK.

This is why I was asking for a quote of what was being said. I am not so sure you are hearing what I am hearing and then project that to wondering if you are reading into what I would read.
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