Why do People Hate Obamacare?

[mike]

There is a lot of talk in the little bit of news I read about Obamacare, or the Affordable Care Act. I do not understand what it is all about. How does it affect the common people negatively?

I will be vulnerable here and give a word about our own experience- In 2011 we left an ultra-conservative church where we had no form of insurance. We were part of a home church for a while, but basically were completely without the mutual support structure of the Conservative Anabaptists. My then-pregnant wife had a blood clot in her leg and we went to the emergency room. When they learned we have no insurance, the hospital sent us to a different office where they collected our information, including a copy of my last few 1040s. After several weeks, we received insurance cards in the mail and the ER visit was totally paid for. A few months later, our daughter fractured her leg. Again, we presented our card, and the ER visit was paid for.

When we moved to Minnesota, we were sent to the local office and our info was transferred from Ohio. We had several more ER visits, once with my twin sons for carbon monoxide poisoning, and another time when one of them got a serious gash on his head that required staples. Again, they asked for our card and everything was paid for. One son needed corrective surgery for a structural birth defect. Another son has a vision problem, and I have a severe hearing loss. Surgery, glasses, and hearing aids all were paid for.

My point is, any one of these things would have totally sunk us financially. Add all of them together and we would probably be homeless on the streets today if we had not been cared for by this program, whatever it is. I have no idea if this is Obamacare or what, but it seems to be functioning quite well at doing what it is supposed to, namely relieve the poor of unbearable medical costs.

For comparison, we recently had an ER visit for a slashed foot here in Mexico, where we are currently. We again have no insurance here. Our total cost for 7 stitches, local anesthesia, bandages, and a bottle of antibiotics came to $17.50 USD.

This suggests to me that US medical costs are grossly inflated, the government acknowledges this, and has decided that the poor should not need to shoulder this burden. Is this not what the Affordable Care Act is trying to do? How is this seen as a bad thing? What is the perceived threat?

I don't read a lot of news, and don't follow politics very closely. Could you explain the furor over Obamacare so an unwashed peasant like me can understand what it's about?

This sounds like Medicaid, a program which has been in place for a long time. To get "Obamacare" you have to purchase insurance on a government exchange, which in the case of low income persons is subsidized by the government.

[mike]

The reason many people hate Obamacare is because it has driven their health insurance costs up. My doctor told me that his patients who have insurance through Obamacare can't afford use it because the deductibles are too high. I have noticed that his fees for office visits have more than doubled in the last several years.

For many people, like myself, Obamacare has simply driven them to participate in an eligible religious healthcare cost-sharing program. These programs are far cheaper than regular health insurance, which particularly for a large family like mine would be unaffordable. For Christian Healthcare Ministries, my cost is $125 per month with additional quarterly payments that raise the maximum benefit over time.

Amish and Mennonites that have church-based mutual aid for healthcare are exempt from Obamacare mandates and penalties.

The negative impact of Obamacare is definitely there for many people. I don't feel it because of our coverage with CHM and also very few health issues in our family. But I can see why a lot of people are upset. Our system is messed up. It would make sense to me to either have completely socialized government-sponsored healthcare, or else leave the free market work out pricing and simply have an aid program for the poor. Which we already have, in Medicaid.

[KingdomBuilder]

A lot of people hate it cause the first 5 letters.

Seriously, though, people are quite the vocal activists against things they have little knowledge of: Common Core, Obamacare, (can I say Global Warming?), etc.
Talking about the general populous, not the posters here.

[RZehr]

Prior to ACA, the company I work for had a medical reimbursement program. I paid zero for healthcare until I had spent about ten thousand dollar in a calendar year. It worked fantastic. That program did not qualify under the ACA, and so the company had to get insurance which ends up costing the company more than double. The current insurance program costs employees way more money out of pocket too.
Additionally, since the company has to pay more in medical expense the employee profit sharing program takes a hit as well, leaving less money in my pocket to pay the additional medical costs.

[Biblical Anabaptist]

As a small time tax preparer, I find obamacare to be a pain in certain parts of the anatomy. It should not be tied to income taxes. Some folks are exempt either because of being part of a 4029 exempt church, being part of a faith based health sharing plan, or being below a certain household income limit all of which requires filling out an additional tax form. Then you have those who have insurance but receive subsidy payments to their insurance company because of their income levels, which requires filling out a form to ensure they do not need to pay part or all of that subsidy back when paying their taxes. Then you have those who need to pay a penalty for not being uninsured.

This is in addition to the problems associated with a broken health care program in general. Locally, members of the Anabaptist groups can get a card from the local health care provider giving approximately a 45% discount for cash at the time of service (in some cases where things need to be billed I believe it is like 10 days). This indicates to me that health care costs, in general, are inflated.

Beyond that, I think it is recognized that insurance companies generally are wealthy. In addition, insurance agents get a good percentage of the premiums as a commission for selling the insurance. The question in my mind is " why should the government force people to purchase something that benefits private enterprise?'

[temporal1]

A lot of people hate it cause the first 5 letters.

Seriously, though, people are quite the vocal activists against things they have little knowledge of: Common Core, Obamacare, (can I say Global Warming?), etc.
Talking about the general populous, not the posters here.

the cross-section of serious complaints, with details, in this thread are disturbing.
frankly, if ACA/UCA had been moderately successful, the first 5 letters would not have mattered.
when people's needs are being met, these matters quickly fade. in my view, these are serious problems that directly affect a whole lot of people. i don't know how i could have managed, at all, in any of the personal situations described so far.

i do not qualify for Medicaid, but not being very far removed, making ends meet is a challenge. i can easily imagine losing my home, "losing everything," to medical costs, yet not qualifying for Medicaid! yes, i can imagine being homeless.

i sincerely have wondered if my "bottom line" might be better if i did qualify for Medicaid?! -
because, those folks also qualify for other benefits. the total of what they receive is likely in excess of what i will ever have. which seems a bit screwy. there are many incentives to not work, esp if you are "borderline."

this principle seems is playing out in areas where min wage has increased substantially. workers are requesting fewer hours - because, their increased income removes them from gov benefits. they do not want to lose those valuable benefits.

one point about ACA/UCA was .. it was highly dependent on LOTS of healthy young people to buy into it. in the beginning, the gov aired catchy PSA's attempting to sell them on the idea. i recall, obama made a "fatherly" statement to young people that they needed to "grow up and pay!"
they are not interested. many choose the penalty tax for no insurance.

one logical suggestion is: Congress needs to have the same coverage as they offer.
i notice, Congress members have NO problem reading details of their own pay+benefits!
they have NO problem passing these laws. there is no hold-up, or partisan fighting.

close to his departure from office, obama passed a law to increase his pay as a retired POTUS, which will continue for future retired presidents. barely a blip on the radar.

there is evidence they CAN work together, read, make decisions.
when personal motivation $$ is present.

[ohio jones]

In my case, as an employee of a small business, medical insurance used to be provided as an employee benefit. When the ACA made it illegal to continue this, they increased our salary by the amount they were paying for the insurance. We then had to pay taxes on that amount in addition to paying the premiums. The premiums increased each year by about 20%, until they were so much more than the church based plan (which also has a lower deductible) that I switched to that. At the end of this year, unless an extension is given, the insurance would no longer be available anyway, so it would be necessary to switch to an ACA policy, where both the cost and the deductible would be approximately double for less coverage.

People hate Obamacare because it is a massive transfer of wealth from everyone except the poor to government and the insurance industry.

[temporal1]

In my case, as an employee of a small business, medical insurance used to be provided as an employee benefit. When the ACA made it illegal to continue this, they increased our salary by the amount they were paying for the insurance. We then had to pay taxes on that amount in addition to paying the premiums. The premiums increased each year by about 20%, until they were so much more than the church based plan (which also has a lower deductible) that I switched to that. At the end of this year, unless an extension is given, the insurance would no longer be available anyway, so it would be necessary to switch to an ACA policy, where both the cost and the deductible would be approximately double for less coverage.

People hate Obamacare because it is a massive transfer of wealth from everyone except the poor to government and the insurance industry.

would you agree, it's also causing more to slip into poverty in the process? which, in many cases, forces those who were able+willing to pay, into the group that enjoys benefits while not paying? .. being just on the border of this, i certainly see how that happens, AND is a temptation to let, or make it happen. once those privileges are enjoyed, people will make choices (like, to not work) to protect those privileges. they fear they must have those benefits.

i.e., it creates dependency on government. which, i can say, is quite depressing.

wealthy people may feel self-satisfied they are "providing for the poor," which frees their consciences, but, do they consider how depressing the process becomes? dependency, combined with invisable bars to future improvement/independence.

honestly, for young, healthy people, it's a curse. young, healthy people are designed to work+contribute, not take+settle.

[Judas Maccabeus]

In my case, as an employee of a small business, medical insurance used to be provided as an employee benefit. When the ACA made it illegal to continue this, they increased our salary by the amount they were paying for the insurance. We then had to pay taxes on that amount in addition to paying the premiums. The premiums increased each year by about 20%, until they were so much more than the church based plan (which also has a lower deductible) that I switched to that. At the end of this year, unless an extension is given, the insurance would no longer be available anyway, so it would be necessary to switch to an ACA policy, where both the cost and the deductible would be approximately double for less coverage.

People hate Obamacare because it is a massive transfer of wealth from everyone except the poor to government and the insurance industry.

Mostly the insurance industry. Govt. gets little from this.

It was sure to be a transfer of wealth to the insurance industry, because to get the insurance industry on board, they let these pirates write it. This was to keep them from deploying their lobbying $$$ to sink it, just like they did with the attempts at reform during the Clinton administration. It seems as if it was set up almost to exclude not-for-profits. As soon as single-payer was off the table, it was the dinner bell for the insurance/pharmaceutical industry.

I suspect that Obamacare will fail, because the current administration wants it to. The chaos that will ensue will lead to a national health system, just like the rest of the developed world. And it is about time.

J.M.

[Bootstrap]

People hate Obamacare because it is a massive transfer of wealth from everyone except the poor to government and the insurance industry.

Mostly the insurance industry. Govt. gets little from this.

And the medical industry. The basic problem is that we pay a whole lot more for medical care than other countries. We did before Obamacare, and we still do. If you want to bring down the cost, you have to address cost, not just decide who should pay for it.



Medicine is a great field for people who want to get rich. This is one of the ways we all pay to enrich those who are already richest.

This was to keep them from deploying their lobbying $$$ to sink it, just like they did with the attempts at reform during the Clinton administration. It seems as if it was set up almost to exclude not-for-profits. As soon as single-payer was off the table, it was the dinner bell for the insurance/pharmaceutical industry.

That's fair. But if we had a congress that wanted to work together, we could have been improving it year by year. All major programs need to be fixed over time. You don't get something like this 100% right the first time.

I suspect that Obamacare will fail, because the current administration wants it to. The chaos that will ensue will lead to a national health system, just like the rest of the developed world. And it is about time.

I would love a single payer program - probably by just expanding Medicare or Medicaid. Simple is good.

I think Obamacare was a win for three groups of people:

• The working poor who benefited from Medicaid expansion
• Young adults up to age 26 who were able to remain on their parent's insurance
• People with pre-existing conditions

Small businesses and individuals in states that did not expand Medicaid were hit hardest by Obamacare. Healthcare is complex, and whatever you do, there are winners and losers. As this article puts it:

The Affordable Care Act sacrificed affordability in order to get more people insured. Prohibiting companies from denying people insurance because of pre-existing conditions, for example, opened up access to everyone, but it also made insurance more expensive for people who were healthy. Similarly, requiring insurers to offer a comprehensive set of benefits meant that low-cost plans offering only catastrophic coverage were no longer allowed for most people, which meant higher premiums for everyone.

But Trump hasn't explained how he wants to fix it. He has promised to give great health insurance to everyone at a lower price, but he's never explained how that's supposed to happen. He never seemed to know what was in the Republican bills, and he didn't do much to help them, insulting and threatening various people who were trying to get it done.

I suspect that Obamacare will fail, because the current administration wants it to. The chaos that will ensue will lead to a national health system, just like the rest of the developed world. And it is about time.

In my dream scenario, Congress listens to John McCain and goes back to regular order. Instead of focusing on how to defeat the other side and claim credit, they ask what the goals are, brainstorm together, come up with ways to achieve those goals. And simply expanding Medicare or Medicaid to cover everyone would be one great approach.

But you really have to address the cost side too.