Why do People Hate Obamacare?

Events occurring and how they relate/affect Anabaptist faith and culture.
Bootstrap
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Re: Why do People Hate Obamacare?

Postby Bootstrap » Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:20 am

temporal1 wrote:there were times when i consulted with a bankruptcy attorney. i was able to keep us out of it.
not sure i'll be able to keep me out of it! it's not that i have great debt now, it's that increasing medical costs are taking what i have (and i live in a state where work is hard to find, i'm at an age when i can't "do everything,") options are limited. the 2007 bank failures caused real estate losses .. i lost property that had been paid-in-full for decades, due to inflated property taxes. the tragic irony being, if i'd had a mortgage, i would NOT have lost those properties! - the bank would have paid the taxes, then i would have paid the bank. i try not to think of this often, it's upsetting, and nothing can change it.


Ouch, that must be really tough. I'm really sorry you are facing this. And I know it's been a long, long time.
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appleman2006
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Re: Why do People Hate Obamacare?

Postby appleman2006 » Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:44 pm

In answer to Ken, for sure. Which is part if not the whole problem. We have legislated and bylawed the whole process into an almost unworkable madness that while looked at law by law can actually appear to make sense bur when combined as a whole is such a maze of bureaucracy that it causes any faint of heart to run for cover. Unfortunately this not only applies to the health field but to every other area of business and it is literally sucking the lifeblood out of our economy.
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temporal1
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Re: Why do People Hate Obamacare?

Postby temporal1 » Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:17 pm

ken_sylvania wrote: When the invitation to bid is a thousand pages long, and requires the bidder to certify and acknowledge compliance with all items and government policies (most of which are not even applicable to the situation, but the bidder doesn't know unless he actually researches and analyzes each one), under threat of fine or imprisonment, the bidder is very likely to tack an extra $50k to $100k on to a $25,000 project just for his trouble.

Dealing with the paperwork on a government project can be almost enough to make a grown man cry!
my father had a small business most of his life. he complained about "red tape" in the 1960's. since then, as you describe, the problem has grown exponentially.

i have a fantasy of all law schools everywhere being shut down for 40 years or so.
lawyers build/create nothing. they are paper pushers. too many law degrees in government.

each year, between federal, state, local government, hundreds/thousands of new laws are passed; every year, without fail. for law "makers," this is their primary source of income. how many laws increase freedoms or lower taxes of legal citizens?! the math in that vision is staggering.

thus, we end up with 1,000 page forms to bid jobs; with no end in sight; not by human reasoning.
as long as law school graduates are paid to craft new law - guaranteed, more new law is what we'll get. there is no auto-correct on this machine.

many pray for divine intervention.

a "sister" fantasy is one wherein lawyers are sent in great numbers to unemployment lines. ;)
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Judas Maccabeus
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Re: Why do People Hate Obamacare?

Postby Judas Maccabeus » Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:01 pm

Bootstrap wrote:
Judas Maccabeus wrote:Most of that administrative overhead is caused by the fact that you have literally dozens of different insurance companies with hundreds of different policies, all with varying rules, and all with different requirements and forms.

The way to get rid of this overhead is either a single payor system, where you have only one insurance to deal with, or a universal multi-payor system, with an all payor model (like most of Europe, except the UK). Germany, in particular uses this system, with much success.


I agree with you. And living in Germany for 8 years was one of the big things that convinced me this can work well. Not only do you have dozens of different insurance companies, you have 50 states with different laws and regulations and forms of their own.

I remember an HL7 meeting where we discussed ways of making this more efficient and a federal employee gave a speech where he said that he appreciated our ideals, but really, every time someone tries to make something more efficient they have to figure out how to implement that for all 50 states and it becomes complicated and inefficient again. Just keeping track of all the forms is a nightmare.


In a universal multi-payor system, like they had in the UAE when I worked there, (It was a while ago) all of the insurers used the same forms, had the same rules, and reimbursed at the same rate. Charge master was like 20 pages. (In a US hospital, it is more like a phone book, if one was ever printed) One guy did the billing for a 50 bed hospital. Lots of "flat" charges, like XXXX for a normal delivery, XXXX for a c-sec, etc.

You can only get data exchange, and interoperability between systems if you have an entity powerful enough to force everyone onto the same platform. The band-aid is scanning sheets of paper. Try searching for data on that!

J.M.
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JimFoxvog
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Re: Why do People Hate Obamacare?

Postby JimFoxvog » Fri Aug 04, 2017 6:52 pm

temporal1 wrote:example.
in my area, university folks LOVE the dreamy ideas of everyone using bicycles rather than cars. i like that idea, too. i understand, some European countries are quite successful with it.

but, our area has weather extremes that interfere with the practicality of it. add to that, short daylight hours in winter, longer distances between services .. it just cannot be effectively transferred.
there are some attempts at bicycle areas, lanes, et al., built at taxpayer expense.
all that results is, cramped driving for vehicles - empty, unused bike lanes! away from campus, i rarely see anyone bicycling. so many things run against it.

My brother lived a few years in Finland, almost at the Arctic Circle. More snow than most of the US, shorter daylight hours than anywhere in the US but Alaska. He and others commuted to work daily by bike; they kept the bike paths clean. It can't be easily transferred--it would take a culture change--but probably could be effectively transferred.
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Valerie
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Re: Why do People Hate Obamacare?

Postby Valerie » Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:19 pm

JimFoxvog wrote:
temporal1 wrote:example.
in my area, university folks LOVE the dreamy ideas of everyone using bicycles rather than cars. i like that idea, too. i understand, some European countries are quite successful with it.

but, our area has weather extremes that interfere with the practicality of it. add to that, short daylight hours in winter, longer distances between services .. it just cannot be effectively transferred.
there are some attempts at bicycle areas, lanes, et al., built at taxpayer expense.
all that results is, cramped driving for vehicles - empty, unused bike lanes! away from campus, i rarely see anyone bicycling. so many things run against it.

My brother lived a few years in Finland, almost at the Arctic Circle. More snow than most of the US, shorter daylight hours than anywhere in the US but Alaska. He and others commuted to work daily by bike; they kept the bike paths clean. It can't be easily transferred--it would take a culture change--but probably could be effectively transferred.


Anyone who ever would visit Holmes County Ohio would be amazed at the Amish that depend on their bicycles to get them everywhere (when not using buggy). We see them VERY early in the morning, in the dark, with their flashing lights on the cycles that make them quite obvious in the dark- they ride them at night- they ride them in winter- but on snowy days I don't know what they do because we don't even drive down there then! You see Amish from teen to elderly, boys, girls men & women (the women in their long dresses yet, riding their bikes- it is probably so good for their health too! Holmes is quite hilly as well, it's a challenge. Anyway-this is a bunny trail but thinking where there's a will there's a way. Of course in the city it is quite different than Holmes County, just sharing how they seem to do it.
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temporal1
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Re: Why do People Hate Obamacare?

Postby temporal1 » Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:34 am

Valerie wrote:
JimFoxvog wrote: My brother lived a few years in Finland, almost at the Arctic Circle. More snow than most of the US, shorter daylight hours than anywhere in the US but Alaska.
He and others commuted to work daily by bike; they kept the bike paths clean.
It can't be easily transferred--it would take a culture change--but probably could be effectively transferred.

Anyone who ever would visit Holmes County Ohio would be amazed at the Amish that depend on their bicycles to get them everywhere (when not using buggy). We see them VERY early in the morning, in the dark, with their flashing lights on the cycles that make them quite obvious in the dark- they ride them at night- they ride them in winter- but on snowy days I don't know what they do because we don't even drive down there then!
You see Amish from teen to elderly, boys, girls men & women (the women in their long dresses yet, riding their bikes- it is probably so good for their health too! Holmes is quite hilly as well, it's a challenge.
Anyway-this is a bunny trail but thinking where there's a will there's a way.
Of course in the city it is quite different than Holmes County, just sharing how they seem to do it.
this is a bunny trail! :lol: please excuse. :oops:
it would require a huge cultural and economic change, to both get people on bikes enough to justify taxpayer expense to allow for both roads/paths and maintenance - neither of which is adequate for existing roads and walkways.

link below on winter biking. :-| which is not at all appealing.
i would choose walking, snow shoeing, or cross country skis over bicycling, as described.
evidently, most would.
when a bicycle becomes more work and more hazardous than walking .. the initial goal is lost.

wind is a big problem on the prairie, all seasons. not sure how it compares with other locations.
wind can make otherwise manageable conditions impossible.
Cold weather biking
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold-weather_biking

not sure if obamacare would cover resulting injuries. 8-)
probably, after deductibles.
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Robert
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Re: Why do People Hate Obamacare?

Postby Robert » Mon Aug 07, 2017 3:54 pm

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Bootstrap
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Re: Why do People Hate Obamacare?

Postby Bootstrap » Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:46 pm

Top Democratic, Republican health experts agree on this plan to fix Obamacare

A prominent and unlikely group of liberal and conservative health experts have authored an ambitious plan to fix the Affordable Care Act — and they plan to make a hard push for their ideas on Capitol Hill. The plan is notable because it has the support of especially well-connected health advisers on both sides of the aisle.


The big deal here is who now supports that plan. The group includes both Democrats who advocated vociferously for Obamacare’s passage and Republicans who have served in previous administrations or advised recent presidential candidates, and who have argued for scrapping much or all of the law. It’s not a bunch of centrist health policy experts. In fact, those who began the effort specifically wanted to avoid a centrist effort. They felt it was important to have experts who are generally divided on health care issues. If that group could come together, then Congress might have a shot too.
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appleman2006
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Re: Why do People Hate Obamacare?

Postby appleman2006 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:58 pm

Sounds hopeful. It would really be nice if they figured out something that will work.
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