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Re: “Former government lawyers say we need to limit the president's ability to deploy U.S. troops at home”
Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2024 11:48 pm
by Ken
Thomas_muntzer wrote: ↑Mon Apr 08, 2024 10:31 pm
Ken wrote: ↑Mon Apr 08, 2024 9:28 pm
Thomas_muntzer wrote: ↑Mon Apr 08, 2024 8:42 pm
We don't need standing armies. No foreign country will invade the US in 2024
And the Army wasn't involved at Waco, Ruby Ridge, or Malheur either. This is what an actual armored combat brigade looks like (the operational unit of the US Army). There is no conceivable domestic issue that requires this sort of firepower or troops whose training is in how to operate and use this equipment in combat against an opposing army, rather than police civilians.
Oh yes we should defund and end the FBI, ATF, DEA and all the unconstitutional alphabet agencies
What makes them unconstitutional?
Re: “Former government lawyers say we need to limit the president's ability to deploy U.S. troops at home”
Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2024 12:08 am
by Thomas_muntzer
Ken wrote: ↑Mon Apr 08, 2024 11:48 pm
Thomas_muntzer wrote: ↑Mon Apr 08, 2024 10:31 pm
Ken wrote: ↑Mon Apr 08, 2024 9:28 pm
And the Army wasn't involved at Waco, Ruby Ridge, or Malheur either. This is what an actual armored combat brigade looks like (the operational unit of the US Army). There is no conceivable domestic issue that requires this sort of firepower or troops whose training is in how to operate and use this equipment in combat against an opposing army, rather than police civilians.
Oh yes we should defund and end the FBI, ATF, DEA and all the unconstitutional alphabet agencies
What makes them unconstitutional?
The alphabet agencies are created by executive orders and they create rules that are enforced as law without pass by congress or the senate.
Re: “Former government lawyers say we need to limit the president's ability to deploy U.S. troops at home”
Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2024 1:32 am
by Judas Maccabeus
Thomas_muntzer wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 12:08 am
Ken wrote: ↑Mon Apr 08, 2024 11:48 pm
Thomas_muntzer wrote: ↑Mon Apr 08, 2024 10:31 pm
Oh yes we should defund and end the FBI, ATF, DEA and all the unconstitutional alphabet agencies
What makes them unconstitutional?
The alphabet agencies are created by executive orders and they create rules that are enforced as law without pass by congress or the senate.
No they were created by congress, in legislation signed by the president. They are annually funded by appropriations passed by congress.
Why do you think they were created by executive order?
Re: “Former government lawyers say we need to limit the president's ability to deploy U.S. troops at home”
Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2024 9:19 am
by Josh
Ken wrote: ↑Mon Apr 08, 2024 11:48 pm
Thomas_muntzer wrote: ↑Mon Apr 08, 2024 10:31 pm
Ken wrote: ↑Mon Apr 08, 2024 9:28 pm
And the Army wasn't involved at Waco, Ruby Ridge, or Malheur either. This is what an actual armored combat brigade looks like (the operational unit of the US Army). There is no conceivable domestic issue that requires this sort of firepower or troops whose training is in how to operate and use this equipment in combat against an opposing army, rather than police civilians.
Oh yes we should defund and end the FBI, ATF, DEA and all the unconstitutional alphabet agencies
What makes them unconstitutional?
Their scope has gone way beyond “regulating interstate commerce”.
Re: “Former government lawyers say we need to limit the president's ability to deploy U.S. troops at home”
Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2024 5:42 am
by Judas Maccabeus
Josh wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 9:19 am
Ken wrote: ↑Mon Apr 08, 2024 11:48 pm
Thomas_muntzer wrote: ↑Mon Apr 08, 2024 10:31 pm
Oh yes we should defund and end the FBI, ATF, DEA and all the unconstitutional alphabet agencies
What makes them unconstitutional?
Their scope has gone way beyond “regulating interstate commerce”.
Their justification is part of the “elastic clause “, necessary and proper. In the judgment of generations of courts, they have been found constitutionally appropriate.
Re: “Former government lawyers say we need to limit the president's ability to deploy U.S. troops at home”
Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2024 11:33 am
by Josh
Judas Maccabeus wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 5:42 am
Josh wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 9:19 am
Ken wrote: ↑Mon Apr 08, 2024 11:48 pm
What makes them unconstitutional?
Their scope has gone way beyond “regulating interstate commerce”.
Their justification is part of the “elastic clause “, necessary and proper. In the judgment of generations of courts, they have been found constitutionally appropriate.
It seems like a “clause” one can drive a truck through, where every single thing ends up subject to federal jurisdiction, which is very much the opposite of what we know the intent of the framers was.
Re: “Former government lawyers say we need to limit the president's ability to deploy U.S. troops at home”
Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2024 12:24 pm
by RZehr
Josh wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 11:33 am
Judas Maccabeus wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 5:42 am
Josh wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 9:19 am
Their scope has gone way beyond “regulating interstate commerce”.
Their justification is part of the “elastic clause “, necessary and proper. In the judgment of generations of courts, they have been found constitutionally appropriate.
It seems like a “clause” one can drive a truck through, where every single thing ends up subject to federal jurisdiction, which is very much the opposite of what we know the intent of the framers was.
Is that truck crossing state lines?
Re: “Former government lawyers say we need to limit the president's ability to deploy U.S. troops at home”
Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2024 12:27 pm
by barnhart
Thomas_muntzer wrote: ↑Mon Apr 08, 2024 10:31 pm
Oh yes we should defund and end the FBI, ATF, DEA and all the unconstitutional alphabet agencies
Is this a parallel movement to De-fund the Police?
Re: “Former government lawyers say we need to limit the president's ability to deploy U.S. troops at home”
Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2024 12:45 pm
by Ken
Josh wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 9:19 am
Ken wrote: ↑Mon Apr 08, 2024 11:48 pm
Thomas_muntzer wrote: ↑Mon Apr 08, 2024 10:31 pm
Oh yes we should defund and end the FBI, ATF, DEA and all the unconstitutional alphabet agencies
What makes them unconstitutional?
Their scope has gone way beyond “regulating interstate commerce”.
Interstate commerce is not the only authority that Congress and the executive branch have to act under the Constitution. There is also the general authority in Article 1 to act to protect the general welfare of the public. Law enforcement clearly falls under the general welfare and no one has ever challenged the constitutionality of Federal law enforcement going all the way back to George Washington.
Re: “Former government lawyers say we need to limit the president's ability to deploy U.S. troops at home”
Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2024 12:47 pm
by Ken
Josh wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 11:33 am
Judas Maccabeus wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 5:42 am
Josh wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 9:19 am
Their scope has gone way beyond “regulating interstate commerce”.
Their justification is part of the “elastic clause “, necessary and proper. In the judgment of generations of courts, they have been found constitutionally appropriate.
It seems like a “clause” one can drive a truck through, where every single thing ends up subject to federal jurisdiction, which is very much the opposite of what we know the intent of the framers was.
The framers also intended that the Federal government have law enforcement powers and the Federal government has been engaged in law enforcement (keeping the peace and general welfare) going all the way back to George Washington.