State of the Union Addresses

[Ken]

i saw him speak of Laken Riley and her illegal alien murderer, i was appreciative he used the correct word, illegal. No controversy.
That didn’t last.

If you cheat on your taxes or drive 75 in a 55 zone does that make you an "illegal" too?

Trump has 91 felony counts against him. Is he an "illegal"?

[temporal1]

Legal U.S. citizens commit crimes, when caught, they expect penalties.

If/when legal U.S. citizens cross national borders illegally, they expect penalties.
If/when legal U.S. citizens cross national borders illegally, then commit heinous additional crimes, they expect penalties.

They do not expect to be treated equally or better than legal citizens of other countries.

Not sure why historical concepts that have existed for all time are now so shocking.

[Ken]

Legal U.S. citizens commit crimes, when caught, they expect penalties.

If/when legal U.S. citizens cross national borders illegally, they expect penalties.
If/when legal U.S. citizens cross national borders illegally, then commit heinous additional crimes, they expect penalties.

They do not expect to be treated equally or better than legal citizens of other countries.

Not sure why historical concepts that have existed for all time are now so shocking.

Just pointing out that tax evasion is a more serious crime than being out of status when it comes to immigration. As is insurrection and sexual assault.
Yet we don't call everyone who cheats on their taxes "illegals"

No one is claiming that immigration laws don't exist, and that there are many who are in violation of them. Although many who are labeled "illegals" have not, in fact done anything illegal.

The issue some have is with the actual labeling some immigrants as "illegal." Which is not something we do to anyone else who breaks the law. Only immigrants. It isn't something I particularly obsess about one way or the other. And the moral scolds criticizing Biden are being pedantic. But that is the issue. It is with the labeling of people themselves as "illegal" which some see as dehumanizing.

[temporal1]

The words were illegal alien, illegal immigrant, shortened to illegals, as our language is wont to do.
To say illegal tax evader, etc., is redundant.

Jose Antonio Ibarra, suspected vicious murderer and known criminal with lengthy record, does not deserve apology from POTUS.

[Grace]

It is with the labeling of people themselves as "illegal" which some see as dehumanizing.

And brutally murdering a person isn't dehumanizing? And not even getting the young lady's name correct, isn't dehumanizing?

Jose Antonio Ibarra, suspected vicious murderer and known criminal with lengthy record, does not deserve apology from POTUS.

There is no surprise that Biden did offer regrets for using the wrong term for this brutal murderer. A lawless person often defends the lawless.

[barnhart]

...It is with the labeling of people themselves as "illegal" which some see as dehumanizing.

Me, I do. It is dehumanizing. Historically when one group starts to dehumanize another group with language, terrible things follow. It's like opening the door and inviting in the devil. Language is important, it reveals and bears along the spirit of the age, the principalities and powers and rulers of the power of the air the New Testament warns against.

The Hutus called Tutsi cockroaches, Jews were called vermin and an infestation, the Russians are invading their neighbors to fight Nazis, the enemies of the US have been red men without souls, godless commies, huns, japs and gooks, African Americans have continually been called monkeys. All this precedes and facilitates tragedy. In the build up to the first Iraq invasion, my pastor pointed out Saddam Hussein was being called a "mad man" who must be "put down like a rabid dog" and he warned against dehumanization. I wish there were more pastors like him today, the sheep are wandering into dangerous territory.

[Josh]

i saw him speak of Laken Riley and her illegal alien murderer, i was appreciative he used the correct word, illegal. No controversy.
That didn’t last.

If you cheat on your taxes or drive 75 in a 55 zone does that make you an "illegal" too?

Trump has 91 felony counts against him. Is he an "illegal"?

After jumping bail for endangering a child and being arrested multiple times, someone who murders a young woman jogging definitely fits the definition of “illegal”.

Words do have meanings. “Illegals” is short for “illegal aliens”. There is no reason to call them anything else.

[Robert]

The Hutus called Tutsi cockroaches, Jews were called vermin and an infestation

Yes, humans can dehumanize others. As followers of Jesus, we should work not to do that. Adding illegal as a qualifier before the word immigrant does not seem to really dehumanize, but define since we have many legal immigrants. If one enters the USA without permission, that is illegal. I do not see that as dehumanizing, but defining.

Illegal and undocumented is the same thing. One clearing shows they broke the law, the other sounds as they forgot their papers at home. I like the more precise word.

[temporal1]

^^Meanwhile, Robert posted. i agree with him.

Me, I do. It is dehumanizing. Historically when one group starts to dehumanize another group with language, terrible things follow. It's like opening the door and inviting in the devil. Language is important, it reveals and bears along the spirit of the age, the principalities and powers and rulers of the power of the air the New Testament warns against.

The Hutus called Tutsi cockroaches, Jews were called vermin and an infestation, the Russians are invading their neighbors to fight Nazis, the enemies of the US have been red men without souls, godless commies, huns, japs and gooks, African Americans have continually been called monkeys. All this precedes and facilitates tragedy. In the build up to the first Iraq invasion, my pastor pointed out Saddam Hussein was being called a "mad man" who must be "put down like a rabid dog" and he warned against dehumanization. I wish there were more pastors like him today, the sheep are wandering into dangerous territory.

you’re going overboard, even if for the best reasons.
the U.S. is deeply generous, tolerant, forgiving. both in citizenry and government. exceptions are paraded like circus acts.

poor leadership+policies lead to chaos.

Jesus came for sinners, to change hearts, He did.
He did not suggest overturning governments, overtaking national borders, etc.

earthly governments are necessary.
the central role of every government, no matter description, is to establish and defend legal borders, protect its legal citizenry.
valid earthly work.

The U.S. currently has a huge “HOMELAND SECURITY DEPARTMENT” that does not secure the homeland.

In the least, government departments that do not perform their stated tasks should be closed, taxpayer dollars immediately RETURNED TO TAXPAYERS, not confiscated by whatever next experiment comes down the lane.

It is not humane to bait people to commit crimes (illegal immigration) at literal risk of life+limb, with rich rewards.
If that happened to me, God help me, i might be tempted. Please do not tempt me to sin! i’m weak. Please, not that.

What is unfolding here, too often in Jesus’ name, is wrong.
Jesus tells His to turn away from sin.

Separate from poor gov policies, are Christians bound to tolerance and love? Yes. At every turn.
Overthrowing governments, even by stealthy legal language? No.

Are some illegals overall “better” citizens than some legal U.S. citizens? Without a doubt.
Mother Theresa would be an illegal alien if she crossed gov borders illegally (not just U.S. borders).

Policies work best when they apply to all. It’s not wise or humane to do otherwise.

Anabaptists generally do not want to engage in government. i expect that’s wise.
Ironically, it has to do with boundaries, earthly and eternal.

[Josh]

If no person is “illegal”, no person is “undocumented” either. They could bring their documentation with them.

Some people simply don’t have visas that authorise them to work in another country. And some don’t have visas authorising them to enter at all.

Before someone enters another country, they should plan ahead for how to pay for shelter, food, and so forth. America has a crisis right now with unaffordable housing so it doesn’t make sense for anyone in dire straits to enter here. Why not stay in a place with a lower cost of living?