"Make America Great Again" - now a song for churches

Events occurring and how they relate/affect Anabaptist faith and culture.
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Josh
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Re: "Make America Great Again" - now a song for churches

Post by Josh »

Valerie wrote:it seems odd to me, to have the belief then that a leader is supposed to be an unbeliever.
Do you think Russia is much better off with their leader being a member in good standing of the Eastern Orthodox church?
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Valerie
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Re: "Make America Great Again" - now a song for churches

Post by Valerie »

Josh wrote:
Valerie wrote:it seems odd to me, to have the belief then that a leader is supposed to be an unbeliever.
Do you think Russia is much better off with their leader being a member in good standing of the Eastern Orthodox church?
Not sure- he seems to be moving Russia in a better direction 'faith' wise- it depends on who you listen to, and I am not there to verify either side of those speaking to me about it.
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Re: "Make America Great Again" - now a song for churches

Post by MaxPC »

Judas Maccabeus wrote:
TeleBodyofChrist wrote:I do not like the connotations of the phrase and how it is being used lately. I wonder if the churches that would sing this understand the triggers this phrase and the present environment cause for people.
In some cases the trigger is exactly why they sing it. A couple left my former (Non-Mennonite) church because they found out that two of the leaders (Including me) were registered democrats. It was apparently seen as one of the most ungodly things that could have happened!

J.M.
How sad that this happened. Letting political affiliations to a worldly kingdom interfere with Christian fellowship and take precedence over the worship of God deprives that person who allows it to do so. Be it Democrat, Republican or another political party, one message that Anabaptism blesses the world with is that of the two separate Kingdoms and that God's Kingdom is to be our focus.
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Judas Maccabeus
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Re: "Make America Great Again" - now a song for churches

Post by Judas Maccabeus »

Gene wrote:
Judas Maccabeus wrote:
TeleBodyofChrist wrote:I do not like the connotations of the phrase and how it is being used lately. I wonder if the churches that would sing this understand the triggers this phrase and the present environment cause for people.
In some cases the trigger is exactly why they sing it. A couple left my former (Non-Mennonite) church because they found out that two of the leaders (Including me) were registered democrats. It was apparently seen as one of the most ungodly things that could have happened!

J.M.
Having endured, at least in our own perception, years of having our political beliefs treated with something between disrespect and downright vilification, conservatives may be excused for entertaining the temptation to rub the liberal nose in the triumph, such as it is, the right currently enjoys.
At the risk of celebrating a past that never actually was, I more and more suspect that we had it right when we thought the church should stay out of politics completely, even abstaining from voting.
Of course all right thinking persons should be properly appalled that a registered Democrat!! (I assume you did not intend "small d democrat", with which we all identify) has invaded this last sacred bastion of right wing conservatism, demolishing a carefully constructed purity, honed over many years. You will be prayed for. ;)
Problem for me is my former church changed while I stood in place. Remember, Jimmy Carter was a democrat, and it was just as likely to see an evangelical in either party. That was before the Moral Majority.

This couple actually looked it up, since I was not very out front with this.

My current church does not endorse voting and I no longer vote. Boy am I happy.

J.M.
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Dan Z
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Re: "Make America Great Again" - now a song for churches

Post by Dan Z »

Valerie wrote:
I, in my heart of hearts, believe Romans 13 as being what it says, that Government is God's ministers against evil- and therefore His will would be that they, used by Him SHOULD control all types of evil, and how does government even know good from evil? I think I will surely be the only one on the forum who thinks that it is God's will, to be involved in the government, but I don't get that from my own human reasoning, but from His Word, prophesies, and even though I agree, only God can change a heart, and although I do not put my 'trust' in government, I believe part of being ambassadors for Christ, is recognizing what being God's minister of good and evil is as leaders over a nation- it seems odd to me, to have the belief then that a leader is supposed to be an unbeliever.
Valerie - you have a great heart motive here, and we long for the same things in terms of God's agenda winning out.

When I read Romans 13 I see a police function (the use of the sword to ensure order & punishing disorder). I don't read the passage as a mandate for the government to use their coercive power to advance God's moral agenda, or even a call for Christians to attempt to harness that coercive power for good. I do agree with you, however, that we who follow the teachings and example of Christ can help those outside of God's order see what God's love and justice should look like (this is the Salt & light call upon us) - but I think this generally happens from the outside not from the inside.
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Jazman
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Re: "Make America Great Again" - now a song for churches

Post by Jazman »

Valerie wrote:
Josh wrote:
Valerie wrote:it seems odd to me, to have the belief then that a leader is supposed to be an unbeliever.
Do you think Russia is much better off with their leader being a member in good standing of the Eastern Orthodox church?
Not sure- he seems to be moving Russia in a better direction 'faith' wise- it depends on who you listen to, and I am not there to verify either side of those speaking to me about it.
Do you have specific examples of this happening? What kind of 'faith' wise are you referring to? I think some 'faith'-wise directions are actually quite off-base (like the situation this OP starts with)
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Jazman
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Re: "Make America Great Again" - now a song for churches

Post by Jazman »

Bootstrap wrote:https://songselect.ccli.com is a service for finding worship music. Here's a new song for worship services:

https://songselect.ccli.com/Songs/70790 ... reat-again
Make America great again
Make America great again
Lift the torch of freedom all across the land
Step into the future joining hand in hand
And make America great again
Yes make America great (again)
This was sung (I assume for the first time) at the Celebrate Freedom Rally with Pastor Robert Jeffress, held in honor of President Trump. Interesting Youtube video ...
Other than seeing some headlines, I've read Rod Dreher's comments about this and was saddened as he was. I did have hope that this was a one-off instance happening at a place with well-known and entrenched penchant for americanism idolatry. But apparently the poison must be spread and profited from too... I lost respect for the "worship"-industrial complex a long time ago, but this really takes the cake...
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A history that looks back to a mythologized past as the country’s perfect time is a key tool of authoritarians. It allows them to characterize anyone who opposes them as an enemy of the country’s great destiny. - Heather Cox Richardson
PeterG
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Re: "Make America Great Again" - now a song for churches

Post by PeterG »

Bootstrap wrote:
Gene wrote:
PeterG wrote:This looks to me like another thread about how wrong other people are.
Isn't that why the internet exists?
Peter makes a good point here. I really don't want to be bashing, but I do think this illustrates why it is so important for us not to conflate religion with political agendas. In a lot of ways, conflating religion and politics is the most natural thing on earth. It's what Verduin refers to as sacralism.

Maybe starting this thread was a bad idea. Is there a more positive way I could have approached this?
I appreciate this response.

The trouble with this thread and others like it is that, whether intentionally or not, they are positioned in the context of partisan political conflict, which tends to become indistinguishable from participation in partisan political conflict. Now, I know Bootstrap well enough to be confident that with the OP he intended to make a point (with which I fully agree) about conflating religion and politics, rather than engaging in partisan battle. But it doesn't necessarily look that way to the casual observer, because the object of political allegiance is emphasized, rather than political allegiance itself.
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PeterG
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Re: "Make America Great Again" - now a song for churches

Post by PeterG »

Jazman wrote:Rod Dreher's comments
This made me look it up, and Dreher's comments on the issue are excellent.

An especially good part—
Rod Dreher wrote:As St. Augustine taught, sin is disordered love. You can love good things in a disordered way, and fall into sin. Christians whose moral imaginations are formed in this way, what is going to happen to them when the US government — under Donald Trump, or some future president — does something wicked, something that followers of Jesus Christ ought to stand against?

What are these people — my fellow Christians and fellow conservatives — going to do when politics fails? [It already did. It was never going to do anything else. —PG] What happens when they have to choose between their country and their Christ? Because mark my words that day is surely coming.

I don’t understand this. Honestly, I don’t understand this. This is not going to end well for the church.
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temporal1
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Re: "Make America Great Again" - now a song for churches

Post by temporal1 »

Robert wrote:Maybe this is why.
http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/07/04 ... -in-sight/

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/07/04 ... -of-paris/

I was sure these things happened a few hundred years ago,
but I guess news can run a little slow. :lol:
:lol:
i noticed, The Blaze ran a series of these historical tidbits on the 4th.
i tried to make a note of them to review later, but, not sure if i did it in an effective way to easily retrieve them.
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Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


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