God's Army Convoy

[temporal1]

1) I’m willing to give them sandwiches if they are persecuting or protesting against me.

2) Not so much if they are making some other political protest.
Why? Same reason I don’t go to parades or festivals - I don’t want to identify with it.

Giving sandwiches to a trucker convoy, is generally an accepted way of showing support. It is not simply feeding the hungry.
I’m perfectly willing to give a sandwich to the hungry, just not if they’ve worked up their appetite by protesting.

It’s fine anyone disagrees, and sees it differently and gives them sandwiches.
Just because it isn’t a sin, doesn’t mean I have to do it.

Interesting. Thanks.
i think 1 is a good example. It doesn’t exactly define enemy, but it describes returning good for bad.
For instance, my teen might protest against me, he might feel i’m his enemy, but i might never see him as an enemy.
i would offer a sandwich. Parents get lots of practice with various challenges.

2 is harder. i think it would be possible to give sandwiches to truckers while also being clear about the intended message.
But i see what you’re saying.

The best example i can recall was on MD when Westboro Church was up to something, one member suggested going to the event, offering sandwiches+coffee .. i wouldn’t have thought of doing that. The idea was intriguing.

Scriptures use the word, enemy.
i don’t think of others i disagree with as enemies. Exchanging good for evil is important. Romans 12:21
Evil is the enemy.

[Valerie]

I didn't say I don't love them. I said they are idolators, caught in idolatry.

i see. well, “Patriotic Nationalist idolators” seem very damning words; i believe idolatry is a huge problem, i guess i wouldn’t judge them so harshly, i guess i appreciate any who make an effort to respect God, even when (i think) they get it wrong. Now, some misuse God for evil, that’s another matter. (Like, sex abusers using God’s name to intimidate+justify their sins.)

That’s not to say i agree with their references. i believe they’re misled. i wouldn’t do that.

i don’t sense evil (from the little i’ve read of this protest).

Loving enemies is counterintuitive to human nature, i often wonder how it works, how it’s acted out.
i wonder who is an enemy. there are all kinds of negative emotions, little rises to the definition of enemy, i think.

I think idolatry is not used correctly here. I guess more like zealots in a way. They like even many democrats who are paying attention recognize the horrible problem at the border and want something done about it. That certainly is not ascribing Deity to the cause but care and concern which is in keeping with Scripture - so is encouragement to abide by our laws. Idolatry? Wrong application

[Valerie]

This will go nowhere fast I see, we get our news from different sources.

From the Conservative Cato Institute: https://www.cato.org/blog/fentanyl-smug ... um-seekers



From Reuters: https://www.reuters.com/graphics/MEXICO ... vkadblovm/

Most fentanyl trafficked by the Sinaloa Cartel crosses at U.S. border ports of entry, often in secret car compartments, disguised among cargo on tractor-trailers, or secreted in the bodies of drug mules, according to an April indictment against the Chapitos, four brothers accused of expanding the Cartel’s fentanyl operations following the capture of their father Joaquin ‘El Chapo’ Guzman.

“The Cartel relies on the impossibility of inspecting every item that crosses the U.S.-Mexico border,” the indictment said.

From the Texas Comptroller General: https://comptroller.texas.gov/economy/f ... ntanyl.php

Texas’ shared border with Mexico is just one avenue for fentanyl trafficking, due in part to its accessibility. It’s a border joined by 29 international bridges and border crossings (Exhibit 1). In 2021, nearly 43 million personal vehicles, 4.87 million commercial trucks, 51,990 buses and 9,023 trains crossed the border legally, according to U.S. Bureau of Transportation data. In the same year, U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) reported more than 1.23 million enforcement encounters in response to illegal crossings on the Texas-Mexico border, including 5,541 drug seizure events.

The DEA has worked with partner agencies to identify and arrest members of drug trafficking networks around the world, but it has named the Mexico-based Sinaloa Cartel and the Jalisco New Generation Cartel as the major suppliers of fentanyl in the U.S. Mexican cartels primarily use personally owned vehicles, rental vehicles and trucks/tractor trailers via interstates to smuggle illicit fentanyl and other illegal narcotics into the U.S., while couriers sneak it into the U.S. on commercial airlines, the DEA states.

Like I said, most Fentanyl is driven across the border through regular ports of entry. And also 90% of smuggling is done by US Citizens for the very reason that the face much less scrutiny at the border than non-citizens or immigrants. It isn't smuggled across the desert by asylum seekers who get searched when they are interdicted.

And putting a dent in the Fentanyl trade isn't about restricting immigration. It is about ramping up screenings at ports of entry which will require lots of expensive technology and more personnel. All of that costs money that Congress refuses to allocate.

Not going to get into a news war with you, these are not my sources and if you can't recognize the obvious potential of thousands coming across at a time, then it's pointless to try. Even with screening we CANNOT take on thousands and thousands at the rate they are flowing in- if people cannot see that then the arguments are futile. This is nuts- and now that they have been sent to liberal cities even those democrat leaders have to admit they can't do this! It was "ok" when it was all on Texas to deal with.

[Valerie]

To be clear, I am not advocating shooting those breaking the law to be shot in the legs- Trump does take our border CRISIS seriously and because Dems don't they are guilty of putting illegals in harms way.
Romans 13:
13 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.

6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.

Wonder how many who are critical of trying to actually address the border CRISIS are willing to adopt these into their own homes and support them if you think it is normal for a country to totally take on other countries? Perhaps a convoy of democrats in vans should go to the border and fill their own vans up and take illegals home & support them- if you think that they deserve better than our own homeless and vets and the poor we already have

[barnhart]

I’m willing to give them sandwiches if they are persecuting or protesting against me. Not so much if they are making some other political protest. Why? Same reason I don’t go to parades or festivals - I don’t want to identify with it. Giving sandwiches to a trucker convoy, is generally an accepted way of showing support. It is not simply feeding the hungry. I’m perfectly willing to give a sandwich to the hungry, just not if they’ve worked up their appetite by protesting.

It’s fine anyone disagrees, and sees it differently and gives them sandwiches. Just because it isn’t a sin, doesn’t mean I have to do it.

I can see wisdom in that but I can also imagine a circumstance where I might try to serve them or interact with them. When the %99 protestors were in the park in Manhattan, I know a man who went there regularly to listen to their grievances, interact and pray with them. There were things about that protest that I didn't want to encourage or support but I did admire his vision.

[RZehr]

I’m willing to give them sandwiches if they are persecuting or protesting against me. Not so much if they are making some other political protest. Why? Same reason I don’t go to parades or festivals - I don’t want to identify with it. Giving sandwiches to a trucker convoy, is generally an accepted way of showing support. It is not simply feeding the hungry. I’m perfectly willing to give a sandwich to the hungry, just not if they’ve worked up their appetite by protesting.

It’s fine anyone disagrees, and sees it differently and gives them sandwiches. Just because it isn’t a sin, doesn’t mean I have to do it.

I can see wisdom in that but I can also imagine a circumstance where I might try to serve them or interact with them. When the %99 protestors were in the park in Manhattan, I know a man who went there regularly to listen to their grievances, interact and pray with them. There were things about that protest that I didn't want to encourage or support but I did admire his vision.

Sure, every situation is unique. The important thing to me is that I don’t want to become one of them. There is plenty of latitude on this subject.

[Ken]

Here is the latest: https://www.rawstory.com/gods-army-border/

God's Army' border truck convoy falls flat amid right-wing 'honeypot' paranoia: report

The “God's Army” trucker convoy that's headed to the southern border in a "Take Our Border Back" campaign has been decimated by conspiracy theories that it's an FBI front, Vice News reported Monday.

The line of trucks that departed Virginia Beach Monday had just a few dozen participants — much less than the 700,000 organizers had promised.

According to Vice's report, the less-than-stellar turnout was likely due to theories circulating in right-wing circles that the convoy could be a “psyop” or “honeypot" trap laid by the federal government to coax people into committing violence.

“I have 3 former associates doing lengthy prison sentences because of the [Jan. 6] setup,” one person wrote on Telegram. “I know first hand, even if they don’t have charges they can pin on you, they will make some up.”

One of the organizers of the convoy, former military commander Pete Chambers, even gave credence to the conspiracy theory in a video message to supporters, telling FBI agents that if they "start going after these people, trying to trap them, you’re going to be found out."

“There’s too much momentum on the other side bro, so just let it go. Stop working for that entity. They’re just going to tear you down, they’re going to use you like a kleenex, just like they did to me," Chambers said.

From Vice News: "Organizers of the convoy, who include QAnon-world influencers and anti-vaxxers, characterized the demonstration as an 'army of god,' and have spent the last couple days putting out PR fires — and trying to distance themselves from any possible future unrest or bad optics.

"'No we are not militia friendly,' wrote Christina Holbrook, aka 'Thought Criminals,' who is an admin for the convoy’s Texas Telegram channel. Holbrook has also asked participants to leave their long guns at home."

OK then....

[RZehr]

Undone by their own imaginations. It’s like a snake eating its own tail.

[Josh]

I wouldn’t say it’s “imaginations”. There were already calls for violence from random people. I would feel confident claiming any such person is probably a fed.

The real, legitimate right wing Maga movement doesn’t have calls for violence and explicitly denounces them. Anyone who crosses this boundary is marked as being a fed, and rightly so.

[temporal1]

I wouldn’t say it’s “imaginations”. There were already calls for violence from random people.

I would feel confident claiming any such person is probably a fed.

The real, legitimate right wing Maga movement doesn’t have calls for violence and explicitly denounces them.
Anyone who crosses this boundary is marked as being a fed, and rightly so.

You question RAW STORY??! THE NERVE.
You must believe in “innocent until proven guilty” .. followed with, “BUT, guilty, if that’s what pleases me.”

“He who laughs last, laughs best.” / or, scripturally, “employ caution with haughty spirits.”

Whether i engage or not, like it or not, U.S. truck drivers and farmers have First Amendment rights, including rights to assemble+protest.

This type of protest has become “something” in various countries, i presume with varying laws/restrictions.
i’m no longer surprised to see them pop up in ANY country, bar none.

Paris under Siege
viewtopic.php?t=6468

Meanwhile, in Canada / P.42 (most recent)
viewtopic.php?t=91&start=410

Canada’s 2022 convoy+gov response has been discussed in a few MN threads.