Flags

Events occurring and how they relate/affect Anabaptist faith and culture.
Ken
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Re: Flags

Post by Ken »

JimFoxvog wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:06 am
Ken wrote: Fri Jan 19, 2024 9:53 pm Which flag should I take down?
...
...
All of them. I think they are all flags representing pride.
So you think there should be a law that school classrooms should be as bare and plain as a conservative Anabaptist church?

And you think how teachers decide to decorate their classrooms is an important enough topic for state legislatures to address through criminal statutes? All the other problems facing states have been solved and this issue rises to the top in importance?
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JimFoxvog
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Re: Flags

Post by JimFoxvog »

No, that's not what I'm saying. The question was which should be taken down. If it were my classroom and my right to do so I would take them down. I'm not suggesting any laws.
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Ken
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Re: Flags

Post by Ken »

temporal1 wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:37 amThe practice should not have been allowed. Of course, removing popular indulgences is harder than not allowing from the start. Every argument imaginable will be tossed out in protest. Memorized talking points, like chants.
You and these various state legislatures should familiarize yourselves with something called the Streisand Effect. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect
The Streisand effect is an unintended consequence of attempts to hide, remove, or censor information, where the effort instead backfires by increasing public awareness of the information. The effect is named for American singer and actress Barbra Streisand, whose attempt in 2003 to suppress a photographer's publication of a photograph showing her clifftop residence in Malibu, California, taken to document coastal erosion in California, inadvertently drew far greater attention to the previously obscure photograph.

Attempts to suppress information are often made through cease-and-desist letters, but instead of being suppressed, the information sometimes receives extensive publicity, as well as the creation of media such as videos and spoof songs, which can be mirrored on the Internet or distributed on file-sharing networks. In addition, seeking or obtaining an injunction to prohibit something from being published or to remove something that is already published can lead to increased publicity of the published work.

The Streisand effect is an example of psychological reactance, wherein once people are aware that some information is being kept from them, they are significantly more motivated to acquire and spread it.

In 2003, American singer and actress Barbra Streisand sued photographer Kenneth Adelman and Pictopia.com for US$50 million for violation of privacy. The lawsuit sought to remove "Image 3850", an aerial photograph in which Streisand's mansion was visible, from the publicly available California Coastal Records Project of 12,000 California coastline photographs, documenting coastal erosion and intended to influence government policymakers, of which the photograph of her residence was an overlooked and inconsequential tidbit of information. The lawsuit was dismissed and Streisand was ordered to pay Adelman's $177,000 legal attorney fees.
And the absolutely hilarious part that illustrates the phenomenon:
"Image 3850" had been downloaded only six times prior to Streisand's lawsuit, two of those being by Streisand's attorneys. Public awareness of the case led to more than 420,000 people visiting the site over the following month.
The same thing will happen here. All that will be achieved if conservative legislators try to ban various forms of rainbow flags is that they will only make them hugely more popular. Sales of rainbow t-shirts, rainbow socks, rainbow bandannas, rainbow stickers, etc. will go up. People will put up posters instead of flags, etc. etc.

In a free society, censorship of ideas is the policy of fools who are either just grandstanding or have no understanding of how ideas and symbols spread. The absolutely most certain way to make something more popular (especially with kids) is to ban it.
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temporal1
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Re: Flags

Post by temporal1 »

JimFoxvog wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 11:56 am No, that's not what I'm saying.

The question was which should be taken down.
If it were my classroom and my right to do so I would take them down. I'm not suggesting any laws.
Existing laws and common sense should have prevented flags+logos from being a problem - wrt GOV PROPERTY.
This has nothing to do with your home or church, personal choices, etc.

It was tolerated, it must be at the breaking point for the elected to feel the need to formalize rules - wrt GOV PROPERTY.

An example of what has led to the breaking point:



in my view, TN needs to broaden their language to include ALL GOV PROPERTY, not just schools.
not just flags, but, logos, paint, art, printed material, etc.

the U.S. gov should not be exploited as a vehicle for promotion of alternate political, social, cult, views.

marketing is EXPENSIVE.
when governments are used to promote individual causes, the dollar value of free advertising is exponential, not “innocuous.”
let’s get real about it.

these cats are clever.
give credit where credit is due. the politically organized minority has become wealthy+powerful.
they’ve established minority rule through calculated legal stealth+hubris.

time to invent brakes to prevent more runaway cars.

Utah Pride Flag (double sided)
Please consider buying a

Utah Theocracy Pride Flag which is an indulgence from the Church of the Sacred Whale of 9th and 9th.
:shock: :-|
https://rileyadamson.com/products/utah-pride-flag

Image
^^Herein they are saying the quiet part out loud: IT IS A RELIGION/CULT .. prideful worship of self and carnal sins.
Sorry to all who fell for it. Repent and move on.

Jesus is generous with do-overs.
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Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


”We’re all just walking each other home.”
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temporal1
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Re: Flags

Post by temporal1 »

All governments have rules/guidelines about their borders, property, uniforms, etc., it’s NOT “censorship.”

The pushback reflects poor reading skills, hubris, exaggerations, lies, bullying, etc.
It also reflects the disturbing level of entitlement certain groups have been allowed to acquire. No shame, no boundaries.

It’s hard to think of anything comparable.

This is what results when people sleep and trust others to take care of things.
The price comes due.

This has NOTHING to do with what’s popular.
It’s just basic housekeeping wrt what’s acceptable for GOV PROPERTY. Boring stuff.

Who are the foolish ones??
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Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


”We’re all just walking each other home.”
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Ken
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Re: Flags

Post by Ken »

temporal1 wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 1:05 pm All governments have rules/guidelines about their borders, property, uniforms, etc., it’s NOT “censorship.”

The pushback reflects poor reading skills, hubris, exaggerations, lies, bullying, etc.
It also reflects the disturbing level of entitlement certain groups have been allowed to acquire. No shame, no boundaries.

It’s hard to think of anything comparable.

This is what results when people sleep and trust others to take care of things.
The price comes due.

This has NOTHING to do with what’s popular.
It’s just basic housekeeping wrt what’s acceptable for GOV PROPERTY. Boring stuff.

Who are the foolish ones??
There is no state in the country in which public schools are STATE government property. That is the case in other countries but not here.

Public schools are public facilities owned and paid for by LOCAL communities and managed through LOCAL elected school boards.

In our system of federalism and local control it is the purview of LOCAL school boards and their administrators to determine policies for things like student dress codes and what types of materials are acceptable in the schools under their authority. Subject of course to constitutional limits and issues of health and safety.

The lack of boundaries exhibited here is by the STATE legislators who think they have solved all the state's problems and now need to step in and take over the job of LOCAL school boards as well.

And yes, when legislators tell people they cannot wear or display certain messages that they disapprove of, that is censorship. It is a textbook definition of censorship. It is also pointless and counterproductive because they will only make it more popular. And they will only be making a mockery of themselves.
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temporal1
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Re: Flags

Post by temporal1 »

obama was a terrific gun salesman.
should people just forget about trying to prevent firearm fatalities?

i didn’t expect the discussion of what’s ok for gov properties. i’m surprised and glad it’s being addressed.
as you are demonstrating, expect lots of drama, wailing and gnashing of teeth.

it’s important not to cave to toddler tantrums.

evidently, lots of politically UNorganized folks aren’t ok with the status quo. they count, even if not to you.
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Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


”We’re all just walking each other home.”
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Josh
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Re: Flags

Post by Josh »

Ken,

In my state, all local government property and authority is entirely part and parcel of the state. Counties and cities are not federal subjects. They are simply divisions created upon the pleasure of the state legislature.
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Ken
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Re: Flags

Post by Ken »

Josh wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 1:56 pm Ken,

In my state, all local government property and authority is entirely part and parcel of the state. Counties and cities are not federal subjects. They are simply divisions created upon the pleasure of the state legislature.
And your state is the creation of the Federal government. That doesn't mean the Federal government inserts itself into every aspect of state and local decision-making.

I don't live in Tennessee and I frankly don't care all that much about what their revanchist legislature does. But if I was running a clothing store geared towards teens in Nashville or Chattanooga, I'd be stocking up on rainbow fabrics and BLM attire real soon as those things are going to be popular with students and parents who want to make a mockery of their silly state legislature. People will make money off this. And, of course, all that will happen in classrooms where teachers are inclined to put up rainbow flags is that the actual flags will come down and rainbow-themed posters will go up in their place. And all other manner of rainbow-themed decorations will appear like rainbow flag screen savers, ribbons, etc. Making a mockery of a silly law and drawing far more attention to the issue of LGBT rights than would otherwise have been the case.
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Josh
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Re: Flags

Post by Josh »

Why do schools have teachers promoting homosexuality in the classroom?
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