Wedding Cake Case in Supreme Court

[temporal1]

Josh - Peace be with you.

Why is it that, on MN, we mostly talk about societal and moral issues whenever they are hot-button "American politics" issues and not at other times? I think that says a lot.

It seems almost like it's assumed that you can't separate these issues from politics. I think it would be great to discuss societal and moral issues without bringing politics into the conversation.

Otherwise these discussions on MN pretty much mirror "American politics", only perhaps a bit more "Christianized". "Christianized" "American politics" does not have a very good track record and I don't think "MN Christianized" "American politics" will fare any better.

I think it has more to do with the timing of the conversations than the subject matter. It really shows how much we follow the news and who has our attention.

For example, I haven't heard of any big storms recently, nor have we discussed size and frequency of storms. And yet when one inevitably hits the news, we probably will discuss it, with each side lining up predictably on each side of the debate.

Maybe storms aren't a good example given the climate change thread. But you get my point.
We shouldn't be led around by the nose by the news.
And yet the news is what we can follow given this forum isn't local, and we are not a real community of believers.

What is a subject that is not in the news?

I think you completely missed my point.
I'm actually promoting talking about these things.
But we shouldn't wait to talk about them until they are some hot-button political issue.

I would love to see us talking about societal and moral issues regardless if it's a hot-button political issue or not.

Why current politics is so often the discussion driver for societal and moral discussions on MN is what I'm getting at.

To be honest, lots of discussions are started in non-political threads, framed in non-political ways.
but, as has been noted over years, these posts/topics do not often get the “traffic” contentious political topics do. Robert’s “Today” thread, and, “I think it is funny,” are exceptions.

For some years, i try to put topics on abortion and education in the Homestead category - because, these are HOME problems that have been politicized. i would love to see the end of that!

Members start all sorts of topics, refresh old topics, etc., lots of members never-rarely post in political threads. i get sucked in. and, i am not pleased with myself about it.

The only answer is to not get sucked in, which requires self-restraint.
(i do not want to say that without also saying, i really value lots of members’ solid response to the common mainstream hyperbole.) someone described it as, “phony hysteria.” it could be, “phony moral outrage.”

in the mainstream, “phony” is indicated by fleeting interest, short attention spans, victim-du-jour, etc. media circus. aka, no depth.

Another part is the OP.
certain members are specially respected, so, when they open political topics, others really want to respond. the floodgates are opened! “forum politics have been blessed.” not always for the best. unintended consequences.

everyone’s understanding is a little different.
i accept that members are sharing in good faith, according to their understanding.

honest people disagree. they did in Jesus’ time, it continues.

i agree with you guys. i appreciate you take the trouble to explain your views.

[Josh]

For some years, i try to put topics on abortion and education in the Homestead category

Most of those topics I've seen about abortion and education seem to be based off news articles and generally are around political issues.

There's a lot more to the problem of abortion and education than politics - especially in Mennonite and in conservative Anabaptist contexts. If you want to discuss those things, it would be helpful to perhaps discuss education from a Mennonite / Anabaptist perspective.

Same goes for abortion. There's a lot of evil in the world, and it's of limited utility to constantly discuss it. I'd rather see more discussion from a Mennonite / Anabaptist perspective of what is being done to bring more good into the world.

This isn't meant to pick on you, but I feel like reacting to news stories isn't a great way to stimulate discussion. It basically lets the world frame and set the debate and tell us what to think.

[temporal1]

For some years, i try to put topics on abortion and education in the Homestead category

Most topics I see about abortion and education seem to be based off news articles and generally are around political issues.

There's a lot more to the problem of abortion and education than politics - especially in Mennonite and in conservative Anabaptist contexts. If you want to discuss those things, it would be helpful to perhaps discuss education from a Mennonite / Anabaptist perspective.

Same goes for abortion. There's a lot of evil in the world, and it's of limited utility to constantly discuss it. I'd rather see more discussion from a Mennonite / Anabaptist perspective of what is being done to bring more good into the world.

agreed. when i bring a topic from the world to this forum, i am seeking the CM perspective on it.
often, i get no response. that’s ok. sometimes, i gain insights.

i think this is essentially what lots of members come here for.
why not?
the world’s views are on display everywhere else.

i hope there will come a day when the world realizes it’s a big mistake to allow “everything” to be politicized. for now, we’re in the thick of it! but, it won’t go well, because it can’t.
Jesus is The Way. government is just a temporal construct.

[Josh]

agreed. when i bring a topic from the world to this forum, i am seeking the CM perspective on it.
often, i get no response. that’s ok. sometimes, i gain insights.

i think this is essentially what lots of members come here for.
why not?
the world’s views are on display everywhere else.

There isn't really one monolithic CM perspective on a typical news story, though. And a lot of us tend to hold a position to not even jump to conclusions until after a lot of things are clear.

So with the Rotherham story, for example, I felt wasn't worth bringing up until a lot had come to surface and been made clear, which has taken years. (At this point, I felt like enough is out in the public that it is worth discussing.)

[JimFoxvog]

This is amazingly good optics for Trump and makes the left look really foolish.

I mean, really? The left’s platform is now to chase women out of restaurants?

Have they stopped to think that this kind of publicity is exactly the kind Trump likes?

Exactly. Not much thinking here at all, I expect. At least some of the left agrees this was not a good idea.

Repetitive lying about serious issues is not good. If someone chose to talk with Huckabee about this, fine. But she should still be able to eat in a restaurant.

[temporal1]

agreed. when i bring a topic from the world to this forum, i am seeking the CM perspective on it.
often, i get no response. that’s ok. sometimes, i gain insights.

i think this is essentially what lots of members come here for.
why not?
the world’s views are on display everywhere else.

There isn't really one monolithic CM perspective on a typical news story, though. And a lot of us tend to hold a position to not even jump to conclusions until after a lot of things are clear.

So with the Rotherham story, for example, I felt wasn't worth bringing up until a lot had come to surface and been made clear, which has taken years. (At this point, I felt like enough is out in the public that it is worth discussing.)

yes. i should have been more clear about CM viewS.
i appreciate reading about the variety of CM views.

regarding Rotherham, i agree. i read bits+pieces now+then over time, but, nothing sufficient to approach understanding. as i’m able, i try to read about how the different European countries are experiencing and responding to immigration. Canada, too. it’s not easy! some are hurt/killed in clashes of cultures.

presently, i’m reading some about a big migration of legal U.S. citizens from California heading to Texas and some other states: they are NOT wanted! CA politics, taxes, cost of living, crime, are all problems.

cultures clash. they always have.
empty platitudes that suggest otherwise are not honest. but, they are popular.

[Bootstrap]

This is amazingly good optics for Trump and makes the left look really foolish.

I mean, really? The left’s platform is now to chase women out of restaurants?

Have they stopped to think that this kind of publicity is exactly the kind Trump likes?

Exactly. Not much thinking here at all, I expect. At least some of the left agrees this was not a good idea.

Repetitive lying about serious issues is not good. If someone chose to talk with Huckabee about this, fine. But she should still be able to eat in a restaurant.

You know, I hadn't checked to see what the Washington Post, New York Times, etc. were saying about this on opinion pages (which I mostly don't read).

Let the Trump team eat in peace (Washington Post)

Ms. Huckabee, and Ms. Nielsen and Mr. Miller, too, should be allowed to eat dinner in peace. Those who are insisting that we are in a special moment justifying incivility should think for a moment how many Americans might find their own special moment. How hard is it to imagine, for example, people who strongly believe that abortion is murder deciding that judges or other officials who protect abortion rights should not be able to live peaceably with their families?

Down that road lies a world in which only the most zealous sign up for public service. That benefits no one.

New York Times

What this example implies for anti-Trump activists is not that they should abandon protest politics, but that they should do everything possible to keep those protests focused directly on the places where the administration’s policies look worst — meaning at this moment, obviously, the separation of children from their families along the border. And many activists are doing just that, to their credit — which is part of why the Trump White House felt compelled to back down, however partially and temporarily, from its cruel version of deterrence.

But these efforts are not likely to be helped by set pieces staged far from the border in which (mostly female, so far) Trump officials come off looking like the victims.

And here's David Axelrod:

Screen Shot 2018-06-29 at 15.28.05.png (56.91 KiB) Viewed 230 times

Hmmm, some restaurants have been offering blue plates for years ...