The Surprising Geography of Gun Violence

Events occurring and how they relate/affect Anabaptist faith and culture.
Ken
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Re: The Surprising Geography of Gun Violence

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Josh wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2024 5:03 pm Grants Pass has a major homeless problem (and drug problem and violence problem) - indeed, that's why there's currently a case pending before the Supreme Court of Grants Pass asking to be allowed to please enforce the law even if the criminal is a homeless person, which the 9th circuit has basically said they can't do.
Yes and it is a bright-red city and county that is entirely Republican controlled and that went for Trump over Biden 62% to 36%. So maybe it is more complicated than Democrat vs Republican and urban versus rural.

Of course a big part of their problem is that Grants Pass and Josephine County has defunded their police and sheriff for years rather than raise taxes. https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/po ... s-policing
Josephine County, Oregon, also found itself in dire fiscal circumstances, but the radical divestment in policing that residents opted for was as much an ideological choice, according to Anderson, as a product of economic conditions—a decline in the timber industry and a shortfall in federal funding that, for a time, compensated for that decline. In the wake of the Great Recession of 2008, budget shortfalls required the elected sheriff to cut into the bone of his department’s budget. By 2014, the 911 dispatcher had no one to send to a woman reporting that her violent ex-boyfriend was trying to break into her home; the sheriff’s office could advise domestic violence victims with restraining orders only that they might “consider relocating to an area with adequate law enforcement.”

Yet between 2004 and 2016, drawing on anti-tax sentiment born of deep poverty mingled with libertarian ideology, Josephine voters rejected tax proposals to support law enforcement nine times. And that gives readers a look at what defunding can look like: a sheriff’s department falling from 85 to 28; detectives laid off; and minimal police response to domestic violence and property crimes, as well as to the auto thefts in a rural county where cars are critical to everyday life and to the armed robberies of the producers flourishing after Oregon’s legalization of recreational marijuana. The district attorney’s office faced massive cuts as well. Residents further reduced police capacity by giving only grudging cooperation when investigators arrived, perhaps in homicide cases, but not even reliably in those.
My town is majority Democrat and governed by the same restrictions from the 9th Circuit as is facing Grants Pass and has about the same population. Yet has a tiny fraction of the crime and dysfunction. We also fund our police and schools.
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Josh
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Re: The Surprising Geography of Gun Violence

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Back in 2020, I kept hearing over and over "Defund the police" and how defunding the police would lead to less poverty, crime, and so on.
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Ken
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Re: The Surprising Geography of Gun Violence

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Josh wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2024 6:30 pm Back in 2020, I kept hearing over and over "Defund the police" and how defunding the police would lead to less poverty, crime, and so on.
I heard some idiots saying it. But no one serious.
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Re: The Surprising Geography of Gun Violence

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Ken wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2024 6:37 pm
Josh wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2024 6:30 pm Back in 2020, I kept hearing over and over "Defund the police" and how defunding the police would lead to less poverty, crime, and so on.
I heard some idiots saying it. But no one serious.
I said in NYC it might be a good idea to take a big chunk of police funding and create a mental health response force.
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Josh
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Re: The Surprising Geography of Gun Violence

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Ken wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2024 6:37 pm
Josh wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2024 6:30 pm Back in 2020, I kept hearing over and over "Defund the police" and how defunding the police would lead to less poverty, crime, and so on.
I heard some idiots saying it. But no one serious.
Well, those 'idiots' were effective in changing policy in some of America's largest cities, like San Francisco.
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Josh
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Re: The Surprising Geography of Gun Violence

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barnhart wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2024 7:48 pm I said in NYC it might be a good idea to take a big chunk of police funding and create a mental health response force.
What, exactly, is a mental health response force? Things like Medicaid are already well funded to provide a variety of services (including mental-health services) to those who are willing to receive it. A lot of people aren't, though. Are you proposing a new type of "force" that can use coercion and violence other than the police force?
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Ken
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Re: The Surprising Geography of Gun Violence

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Josh wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2024 8:09 pm
barnhart wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2024 7:48 pm I said in NYC it might be a good idea to take a big chunk of police funding and create a mental health response force.
What, exactly, is a mental health response force? Things like Medicaid are already well funded to provide a variety of services (including mental-health services) to those who are willing to receive it. A lot of people aren't, though. Are you proposing a new type of "force" that can use coercion and violence other than the police force?
It means you call them instead of the police when someone is having a mental health crisis.
Just like you call the fire department instead of the police when their is a fire.

Other cities have tried that sort of thing with mixed success. It is more or less a band aid instead of actually properly funding real mental health facilities and committing people to them who need to be committed.
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Josh
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Re: The Surprising Geography of Gun Violence

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Oh, we have hotlines like that here. They are run by Ohio RISE which is operated by the department of Medicaid. You can call them for a “behavioural health crisis”. 911 operators in Ohio are aware of this can can connect a caller directly to them.

However they can’t compel treatment unless someone is already on probation from eg drug court where they agree to accept treatment (or else be returned to jail).
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Ken
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Re: The Surprising Geography of Gun Violence

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Josh wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2024 11:46 pm Oh, we have hotlines like that here. They are run by Ohio RISE which is operated by the department of Medicaid. You can call them for a “behavioural health crisis”. 911 operators in Ohio are aware of this can can connect a caller directly to them.

However they can’t compel treatment unless someone is already on probation from eg drug court where they agree to accept treatment (or else be returned to jail).
In big cities a TREMENDOUS amount of police resources are expended responding to people who aren't doing anything particularly illegal but just having some sort of mental health crisis. The idea is to divert some of that effort away from the police to people better trained to deal with it.

The devil is in the details so to speak. And you tend to run into bureaucratic obstacles such as police unions who don't want to see their purview get chipped away to the issue that non-police respondents really can't compel anyone to do anything whereas at least the police can toss someone into a squad car and haul them away, even if it doesn't stick later.

The problem is that there is generally no place to haul them to and no way to make them stay even if there was.
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Josh
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Re: The Surprising Geography of Gun Violence

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Ken wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2024 12:06 am In big cities a TREMENDOUS amount of police resources are expended responding to people who aren't doing anything particularly illegal but just having some sort of mental health crisis. The idea is to divert some of that effort away from the police to people better trained to deal with it.
Yes, but only the police are deputised to use force. A mental health practitioner can't pull out a pair of handcuffs and force someone into treatment. That only happens with (a) a court order first, and then (b) a police officer enforcing that order.
The devil is in the details so to speak. And you tend to run into bureaucratic obstacles such as police unions who don't want to see their purview get chipped away to the issue that non-police respondents really can't compel anyone to do anything whereas at least the police can toss someone into a squad car and haul them away, even if it doesn't stick later.
As I pointed out earlier, we have the Ohio RISE program which has an extensive network of mental health services. No opposition from police unions.
The problem is that there is generally no place to haul them to and no way to make them stay even if there was.
There are plenty of such facilities where I live. The threshold to force someone to go to them and actually behave is rather high, though. A lot of people simply don't want to go to them and prefer to live outside where they can smoke, drink, and use drugs whenever they want.

In the halfway houses provided for people with mental disabilities, severe mental illnesses, or whom are otherwise homeless, there are rules against drinking, using drugs, and starting fights. After multiple infractions, a facility will ban a person and they can't reenter. If they aren't willing to seek mental health treatment, there (currently) isn't much the government can do, although where I live specifically, living on the street isn't tolerated, so it certainly is possible to clean up the streets.
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