A Story from Warren Michigan

[Ernie]

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/ ... s-00131386
Quite the story. Almost long enough to be a book.

A story about racism, politics, and religion.

And for those folks who think it is best if ethnic groups stay together rather than integrate, and for those who think they should integrate, this story has something for all.

I'd like for this thread to talk about the issues.
Yes, you can talk about the political maneuverings and those who suffered, but please keep current politicians and debates out of this thread.

Please don't comment until you have read the story...

[Ernie]

After reading this story...
 
I was not aware that some northern cities in the last part of the 20th century, dealt with racist issues, just as much as many places in the south.

I was not aware that "mixed-marriages" bothered white people more than having blacks live in their neighborhood. (Or at least that is what they said.)

A question I have, Did African-Americans eschew interracial marriages as much as Whites in the last half of the 20th century?

[barnhart]

In 2011 I moved from Queens to Brooklyn, one of two white families in the neighborhood. The elderly resident on the corner rather pointedly told me he was the first nonwhite person to live there back in the 60s. Between signing the papers and moving in, each of the panels of the glassed porch was broken out. He chose to take down the wood casing and leave it open and you can still see the remnants of the original design.

That prompted some research and I discovered I was living in a space with a contested racial geography. Real estate companies hired black actors to walk up and down the streets for weeks. Then they instigated a small civil disturbance with black actors yelling or scuffling. Then they sent agents to each house with low offers because the neighborhood was "going black" and it would be better to get out early before prices fall. This was called block busting.

I have a black friend who lived in S. Carolina an Brooklyn and he summarized the difference as, "Here you can rise as high as like but you must be distant. In the south you can be as close as you want but you have to stay low." I think that is a good summary of the difference. It was easy for white people in the north to look down on oppression of black folks in the south, but when the black folks moved north they weren't ready to do better.

[Ken]

I think intermarriage was a bigger flashpoint for white communities than integration because people were fearful that their white daughters would wind up with black men. For some reason it is always the white daughters and not the white sons that people freak out about. A black family in the neighborhood that keeps to themselves is less of a social threat than inter-racial dating and interracial marriage.

It was interesting to read about Romney's role in pushing integration. I've always had respect for the Romney family and wish the current GOP was more in the mold of Mitt Romney than Donald Trump. But I guess that ship has sailed.

This sort of overt racism is also connected to the affordable housing crisis and zoning that I referred to on the other thread. Communities around the country deliberately used zoning as a means to prevent integration since the vast majority of Black families would be financially prevented from buying in more affluent white communities. So zoning was a means to prevent integration without ever overtly referring to race. Here is a discussion of exclusionary zoning: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusionary_zoning Although it was put into effect in the early 20th century to prevent integration. Cities around the country rushed in zoning rules after the Supreme Court overturned overt segregation of neighborhoods in 1917: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buchanan_v._Warley

Same issue came up more recently in Warren when they tried to prohibit rentals through a new zoning overlay. Black families were moving in by renting houses and by prohibiting rentals they would block that avenue. https://michiganchronicle.com/2019/09/1 ... of-racism/

[Ernie]

and wish the current GOP was more in the mold of Mitt Romney than Donald Trump.

I'd like for this thread to talk about the issues.
Yes, you can talk about the political maneuverings and those who suffered, but please keep current politicians and debates out of this thread.

[RZehr]

Trump was mentioned in the article.

Today’s Republican Party is figuratively led by Trump and literally led by Ronna Romney McDaniel — the granddaughter of George Romney. It is at once more diverse than ever in the candidates it elects to Congress — a spokesperson for the Republican National Committee tells me that so far for 2024, 105 people of color have filed to run for Congress as Republicans, a “historic number” — and more reliant than ever on Macomb-style grievance politics to animate its base voters. 

When Trump suggested in 2020 that Biden wants to “abolish suburbs” — its racial implications clear to anyone paying attention — it was hard not to hear the echoes of the very people George Romney denounced in the 1960s and ’70s. “The Suburban Housewives of America must read this article,” Trump tweeted in July 2020, linking to a New York Post op-ed.

[temporal1]

A question I have, Did African-Americans eschew interracial marriages as much as Whites in the last half of the 20th century?

yes. and still do.
not confined to marriages. people everywhere, not just b/w, generally prefer and value what’s familiar.

Thomas Sowell has written about it in various pieces.
https://www.tsowell.com/spracecu.html

marriage can be particularly touchy. think of the Hatfields+McCoys, Romeo+Juliet, and thousands of literary examples.
skin color is just one factor that can set parents’ nerves on edge. some don’t want Texas Baptists, no matter skin tone.

black parents want their grandchildren to look like they look. is that surprising?
they don’t dream of “that white girl” or guy at the table. it can be very hard.

[Ken]

A question I have, Did African-Americans eschew interracial marriages as much as Whites in the last half of the 20th century?

No.

You did not EVER see the same violent public racist protests whatsoever if a White person married into a Black family and moved into a Black neighborhood. Which did happen. There is no history (that I am aware of) of that EVER happening. The violent and racist outbursts have always been on the other side.

Also, most Black Americans already have some white ancestry (legacy of slavery). And there is a preference for or bias towards lighter skin in Black culture. Lots has been written about this.

[temporal1]

Depending on if you’re interested in “most people in everyday life” versus “incidents msm deems headline-worthy.”
Everyday life doesn’t sell copy.

[Ken]

Here is actual polling on the subject going back over 50 years.

A majority of Blacks have approved of interracial marriage going all the way back to the 1960s. A majority of White Americans didn't approve until 1998. At no point in history have Blacks viewed interracial marriage as negatively as Whites. And they certainly never had racist temper tantrums about it, threating to burn down their own neighborhoods as happened with Whites.