Information Rage?

Events occurring and how they relate/affect Anabaptist faith and culture.
MaxPC
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Re: Information Rage?

Post by MaxPC »

Appleman
appleman2006 wrote:
I really do not care which side it is. But the day that I cannot speak out against it will be a sad day. Not in a hateful way. Not in a revengeful way. But hopefully in a way that says things do not have to be this way. There is a better way.
Again I am sorry that this type of thing still shocks and upsets me. Actually I am not really but I am sorry that my saying it may have been misunderstood by some of you. Now I will climb back in my hole. Ignore what is happening out there. And maybe with time I can again get back my blissful ignorance. :hug:
Appleman, I agree. I also agree it's not important which political party perpetrates the vitriol. The blame game doesn't produce change; it perpetuates the anger.

Viciousness and vitriol on social media and mass media with the shaming and blaming has created the sludge of negativism and a verbally violent culture.

I feel that if we are no longer dismayed by it, we run the risk of no longer caring about our fellow man. I would encourage you to stay out of "the hole" and help contribute to the conversation on how we can best be Christ's salt and light. Your contributions are very helpful. As Christians we need to have encouragement and a plan to counter the problems and issues of secular culture in a way that promotes the Kingdom of God.

For my part, I've been contacting my old faculty colleagues in the past 2 days. We're looking at ways to once again elevate professional ethics, morals and standards in academia. This conversation has encouraged me to do so.
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Max (Plain Catholic)
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Re: Information Rage?

Post by Bootstrap »

appleman2006 wrote:I really do not care which side it is. But the day that I cannot speak out against it will be a sad day. Not in a hateful way. Not in a revengeful way. But hopefully in a way that says things do not have to be this way. There is a better way.
Again I am sorry that this type of thing still shocks and upsets me.
I'm shocked and upset by this kind of thing too. I don't know about the incident in the OP, I don't know what he said, but it sounds like an over-the-top expression of anger. But this stuff is everywhere, and it is not coming from just one side. Google "far right extremism 2017" and "far left extremism 2017" for one comparison.

If we are one-sided in our response, I think that can enable this kind of vitriol. And if we just parrot things we hear without checking the facts, we can really help people weaponize this kind of vitriol through social media.

But this kind of response is also vitriol:
Just look as those bad people! Please join me in my disapproval of them.
For those who are inclined to vitriol, it also helps them pick targets. Especially on social media, which has completely trashed many people's lives when they become targets of this kind of thing.

And when the vitriol is so polarized, I think we need to look at alt-right vitriol together with far-left vitriol if we want to discuss these things. By any reasonable measure, this is not a problem on just one side of the political spectrum.
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haithabu
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Re: Information Rage?

Post by haithabu »

Bootstrap wrote:
haithabu wrote:I first realized that extreme forms of thinking are taking root in regular peoples' minds when it started to leak through in Facebook repostings from family members. When your own sister publicly declares that people like you who support traditional marriage are guilty of the Orlando shootings, then you realize that there is something potentially dangerous going on in the general culture that you'd best be aware of.
I have been noticing this kind of thinking and complaining about it for years, often on MennoDiscuss. Years back, most of it came from the religious right, right wing nuts, etc. Recently, we're seeing a lot more of it on the left. With topics like gay marriage, vitriol and hostility against gays has been a long tradition. Now we are seeing vitriol and hostility toward people who agree with us on traditional marriage. What goes around comes around.....

I regularly encounter progressives who try to play this equivalency or karma game and it only makes sense if you subscribe to their ideas about collective guilt. Sometimes it can be taken to absurd lengths such as when one expresses concern about the churches burned in Mali and someone comes back with "...but the Crusades!" Sadly, the last time I heard that it was from fellow Christians. It seems that we can be prone to internalizing accusations against our own faith, some of which are slanderous and others if true are irrelevant to the case in hand.

I would find it refreshing if just once instead of "yes, but" or "backatcha" or "what about" someone would simply say, "Yes, I agree that's wrong and it bothers me too!"
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Re: Information Rage?

Post by Bootstrap »

haithabu wrote:I regularly encounter progressives who try to play this equivalency or karma game and it only makes sense if you subscribe to their ideas about collective guilt. Sometimes it can be taken to absurd lengths such as when one expresses concern about the churches burned in Mali and someone comes back with "...but the Crusades!" Sadly, the last time I heard that it was from fellow Christians. It seems that we can be prone to internalizing accusations against our own faith, some of which are slanderous and others if true are irrelevant to the case in hand.
I don't think that's what I'm doing. Actually, I think what you just said is a false equivalency.

The current rise of extremist hatred and violence is a scary thing. I think internet bullying of people who disagree with you is a scary thing. And I think the kind of vitriol coming out of the White House and people associated with the current president of the United States is a scary thing. That's not some obscure thing back in the middle ages, that's now. What's new is that we're seeing it on the political left too.

And I'm not sure we know what the professor said. His Facebook page is not public, perhaps it was before the controversy. I don't trust the more vitriolic media and blogs to report accurately on this kind of thing. This article says his statements have been misconstrued, discusses the death threats against him that have forced him and his family into hiding, says that he did not call for violence, and says he has issued a public apology:
Trinity College Professor Johnny Eric Williams Thursday issued a public apology and said he was in hiding far from Connecticut as the campus reopened amid a furor over his recent controversial Facebook posts.

Williams said his posts were not a call for violence against white people, as some claimed when the posts spread across social media. Some of his colleagues spoke out in support of Williams, who fled Hartford after receiving death threats.
Many professors at Trinity signed a statement saying that this has been misreported:
On June 18, 2017, Prof. Williams was targeted by several conservative websites. They initially and incorrectly attributed a blog post to Williams, which he had not written but only shared on social media. They also misconstrued several comments Williams had written; creating a false narrative that Williams was advocating violence. These inflammatory posts were widely shared, inciting a campaign of violence and intimidation. A barrage of violent threats by phone and email were directed Williams and Trinity College. So extreme were the threats, Trinity College was forced to shut down all operations on Wednesday, June 21st.
Death threats and targeting someone in social media looks a lot like vitriol to me. Calling for someone to lose his job based on hearing something on the news looks a lot like vitriol to me. The appropriate venue for this kind of thing is a trial or a hearing, not vitriol on social media. Williams is now the target of a campaign driven by media and social media that almost guarantees the kinds of death threats he is getting. He's hardly the first. Let's stop participating in that.
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Re: Information Rage?

Post by Bootstrap »

appleman2006 wrote:I really do not care which side it is. But the day that I cannot speak out against it will be a sad day. Not in a hateful way. Not in a revengeful way. But hopefully in a way that says things do not have to be this way. There is a better way.
I think the better way is to let them have hearings and wait for the facts to come in. Speaking out now is just letting the media and social media manipulate us.

The college, the local press, and a lot of professors are saying the right-wing media is misrepresenting what he said. His Facebook page is not public, I cannot read what he said in context, but he says he was not calling for violence. He is now facing death threats. The college had to be shut down because of threats of violence.
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MaxPC
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Re: Information Rage?

Post by MaxPC »

haithabu wrote: I would find it refreshing if just once instead of "yes, but" or "backatcha" or "what about" someone would simply say, "Yes, I agree that's wrong and it bothers me too!"
Amen. And to actively begin spreading the courtesy and dignified discussion instead of getting bogged down with rationalization. Which brings this thread back to my original Query: what are some practical actions can we as Christians do in real time to set a better example without having to wade through the sludge of social media so to speak?

For my part, I've been contacting my old faculty colleagues in the past 2 days. We're looking at ways to once again elevate professional ethics, morals and standards in academia. This conversation has encouraged me to do so.

What can other Christians do, especially those who use social media?
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Max (Plain Catholic)
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haithabu
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Re: Information Rage?

Post by haithabu »

If the reports of what the professor posted are true, then outrage may be appropriate because the reported statements truly are outrageous, but death threats and expressions of hate are not. As Jesus said, "Bless those who curse you". And I agree that media coverage and reposting amplifies these statements beyond what they deserve and encourages people to over react (as I described in an earlier post).

But surely we can have an adult discussion about these things without being accused of being part of the problem.
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Sudsy
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Re: Information Rage?

Post by Sudsy »

Perhaps Philippians 4:8 is appropriate here ?
Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
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Re: Information Rage?

Post by Bootstrap »

haithabu wrote:If the reports of what the professor posted are true, then outrage may be appropriate because the reported statements truly are outrageous, but death threats and expressions of hate are not. As Jesus said, "Bless those who curse you". And I agree that media coverage and reposting amplifies these statements beyond what they deserve and encourages people to over react (as I described in an earlier post).
When you first hear something like this, I think it's helpful to start by saying, "hmmm, I wonder if that's true. I'll wait a few weeks or months, and by then we'll probably know.

When a story first breaks, it is largely not true, at least on average. If we want to avoid spreading vitriol, waiting patiently for the whole story to develop is important, and jumping to conclusions is bad. Let the college conduct their hearing. Give Williams a chance to explain his side of the story. Since we can't see his private Facebook page, and there have been plenty of false reports about people's private Facebook pages (some involving hacking those pages), let's wait for the facts to come in.
haithabu wrote:But surely we can have an adult discussion about these things without being accused of being part of the problem.
I think we are having an adult discussion - and I thought your response very good along those lines.

But I also think we need to consider our role as Christians. We are swimming in a world of accusations, some true and others false, surrounded by media and social media that want to manipulate our emotions. I think we need to be wise to that.
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Re: Information Rage?

Post by MaxPC »

haithabu wrote: But surely we can have an adult discussion about these things without being accused of being part of the problem.
I think your contributions are valid, Haithabu. I have never seen you do this. I know that some do engage in such accusations and sarcasm. It's a very sad way to avoid an honest discussion through blaming and shaming, as well as obtuse distractions to derail the central concern. Others see this and recognize it for what it is: persecution of others.
Sudsy wrote:Perhaps Philippians 4:8 is appropriate here ?
Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
Exactly, Sudsy. And when our thoughts are interrupted with the outrageous and violent, personally I prefer to look at the problem itself and then seek viable Christian actions as alternatives. Many have stayed on topic in this thread and offered those viable solutions. I think it's good these things can be discussed within an authentic Anabaptist context as the Anabaptist culture and theology can offer much with their history of persecution.
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Max (Plain Catholic)
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
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