Information Rage?

Events occurring and how they relate/affect Anabaptist faith and culture.
Neto
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Re: Information Rage?

Post by Neto »

I may have misunderstood. I did not listen to, or search for any information regarding this news story. I was not responding to the political side of this story at all, just the element of the foul language, which I understood to have been broadcast in the professor's own voice. (This was probably a misunderstanding.) Shocked response to such things does not depend on the truthfulness of this particular story, and it is not surprising that someone who does not listen to television broadcasts on a regular basis would be shocked by the foulness that is apparently condoned in our modern society. Just read any of the readers comments on most any story at all on most any news site or discussion board on the internet, and you can see that it is now culturally acceptable. Fortunately there are still some decent forums that are not Christian in focus. (I am on several auto-related forums, and for the most part, such vitriol is not tolerated by the site administrators. Some other auto-related forums are full of it, and off-color jokes are the norm.) But television broadcasters used to consider the fact that children are listening. I do not think that pointing out or decrying the decay of our society is feeding the rage. We are supposed to be salt, and sometimes salt burns. But I'm not so terribly shocked by it anymore, because it is so prevalent in the public conversation. I actually find it much more disturbing when I read some of the aggressive conversation on sites whose objectives are to be 'salt & light'.

But what to do about it? I think that it is OK to confront someone at times, but often just not doing it yourself is noticed, and eventually some will ask you about it, or began to curb their foulness when around you. Eventually it may even become a habit with them to avoid such talk, and then even their heart may begin to change in other miraculous ways.
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MaxPC
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Re: Information Rage?

Post by MaxPC »

Neto wrote:Shocked response to such things does not depend on the truthfulness of this particular story, and it is not surprising that someone who does not listen to television broadcasts on a regular basis would be shocked by the foulness that is apparently condoned in our modern society. Just read any of the readers comments on most any story at all on most any news site or discussion board on the internet, and you can see that it is now culturally acceptable...
...But television broadcasters used to consider the fact that children are listening. I do not think that pointing out or decrying the decay of our society is feeding the rage. We are supposed to be salt, and sometimes salt burns. But I'm not so terribly shocked by it anymore, because it is so prevalent in the public conversation. I actually find it much more disturbing when I read some of the aggressive conversation on sites whose objectives are to be 'salt & light'.

But what to do about it? I think that it is OK to confront someone at times, but often just not doing it yourself is noticed, and eventually some will ask you about it, or began to curb their foulness when around you. Eventually it may even become a habit with them to avoid such talk, and then even their heart may begin to change in other miraculous ways.
Amen and well said, Neto.
Sudsy wrote:
MaxPC wrote:Going back to my original query, do you have a suggestion for a Christian response to such vitriol?
Sharing the love of Jesus and praying for lost souls. Where sin abounds, grace abounds all the more. A Romans 5;20 paraphrase - “For wherever sin exists in abundance and is multiplying and constantly expanding, that is precisely the time and place where grace is poured out in a far greater, surpassing quantity.”
Thank you for this encouragement, Sudsy. It's an excellent reminder that God will use this for His Victory.
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Bootstrap
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Re: Information Rage?

Post by Bootstrap »

Judas Maccabeus wrote:I try my best to ignore it, and give it all of the attention it deserves....none.
Yup. If we want to keep our eyes on Jesus, why focus on this?
MaxPC wrote:Agreed. We don't own a tv at all. Sitting in a doctor's office there are usually tvs blaring. It's difficult to avoid. The story though is shocking, especially when an academic is involved. Going back to my original query, do you have a suggestion for a Christian response to such vitriol?
Who would you respond to? You don't know the television announcer or the professor. You can find vitriol all over, some of it expressed by our elected politicians, complete with shocking profanity.

I think the best Christian response might be to applaud politicians and other leaders who say things like this:

http://www.wlsam.com/2017/06/16/ryan-pe ... ball-game/
Pelosi, who like Ryan was wearing Louisiana gear in honor of Scalise, said the injured member was a “lovely person,” and hailed the bipartisan spirit of the annual game.
“Tonight we’re all Team Scalise,” Pelosi said.
Asked if the political climate and incidents like Wednesday’s shooting indicated an increased threat to lawmakers, Ryan said it was incumbent on politicians to cool things down across the nation.
Ryan said, “What we’re trying to do is tone down the rhetoric, lead by example and show people we can disagree with one another, we can have different ideas without being vitriolic, without going to such extremes.”
Politicians and the media stoke vitriol because it works. If we want that to change, we have to stop responding to it - and respond to what is good instead. If they see that vitriol is what people spread on social media - including here - they will keep giving us vitriol.
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Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?
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Josh
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Re: Information Rage?

Post by Josh »

Perhaps I'm a bit desensitised since I lived in the world for many years, but I just tune out conversations, TV, radio, background music, etc. that is not edifying me or helping advance Jesus' kingdom. If I paid attention to what's out there, I could find something offensive with almost every minute of every broadcast. That wouldn't be a good use of anyone's time, and I would be playing into the hands of broadcasters who design their content to stir people up, as Bootstrap has pointed out.

Since I quit watching TV and listening to the radio, this got a good bit easier, and nowadays I pretty much avoid anything recorded, e.g YouTube, per my church's standards. Leaves a lot more time for one on one conversations with actual people.

(Things that are OK in the CGCM: listening to recorded spoken messages on a dial-in line; listening to a live recording, like a dial-in church line, on the Internet; live FaceTime / Skype with a friend; prerecorded instructional audio like Pimsleur or Great Courses. At first this seemed really restrictive, but I'm finding I'm better off with more time to read and my time spent listening to precorded audio not focused on news.)
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Bootstrap
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Re: Information Rage?

Post by Bootstrap »

Neto wrote:I do not think that pointing out or decrying the decay of our society is feeding the rage.
I think telling people how outraged we need to be about particular people is feeding the rage. Politicians and the media use outrage and anger because it works. When we spread that outrage and anger by our response, they can measure that response using social media tools that call it the "impact" of a story or a statement. They know which stories are shared on Facebook, Twitter, and public forums. They will give us more stories like those. So if you want more of this, feed it.
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PeterG
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Re: Information Rage?

Post by PeterG »

appleman2006 wrote:
PeterG wrote:I'm afraid that (a) the professor's statements, (b) the news report, (c) this thread, and (d) this post are not as different from each other as we might wish.

"Just look as those bad people! Please join me in my disapproval of them."
Peter do you not believe there is a vast difference between expressing disapproval of someone or someone's actions and basically wishing out loud that they were dead or that calamity would hit them?
I think there is a huge difference and to equate the two is not really fair.
Yes, there is a difference. I did not equate them. I said that they are similar in ways that should make us uncomfortable, and that my discomfort extends to my own participation in this thread.
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Neto
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Re: Information Rage?

Post by Neto »

Bootstrap wrote:
Neto wrote:I do not think that pointing out or decrying the decay of our society is feeding the rage.
I think telling people how outraged we need to be about particular people is feeding the rage. Politicians and the media use outrage and anger because it works. When we spread that outrage and anger by our response, they can measure that response using social media tools that call it the "impact" of a story or a statement. They know which stories are shared on Facebook, Twitter, and public forums. They will give us more stories like those. So if you want more of this, feed it.
I interpreted the original post as citing this particular case as an example of the social decay, not as a direct response to this particular person or news cast. Again, I didn't look at the link (if there was one), nor did I look for any other "news" about this particular "event". I interpreted the personal reference as pertaining to the fact that this was not a "man on the street", but an educated, professional in the education field. Maybe I'm wrong, but I took the shock as referencing that incongruity, not that it was this particular person, or case. Perhaps one lesson in this is that our concepts of typical behavior of the different classes of people are skewed - the idea that a college professor is more "professional" in the way he comports himself than "the man on the street". Highly educated people can be just as foul as the stereo-typical construction worker. (Again, my responses have only dealt with the language used, not anything to do with any sort of "death wish", etc. That didn't even attract my attention in the original post, if it was there.)
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PeterG
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Re: Information Rage?

Post by PeterG »

GaryK wrote:I'm wondering if PeterG isn't pointing out that when we (in Christ's Kingdom) see/hear people in a secular society involved in denouncing and threatening each other and saying all kinds of "horrible" things, that's par for the course. That's part of the other kingdom. Why use social media to point out how "terrible" our society has gotten? Perhaps trying to address people's heart issues is a better and more Kingdom-minded way to effect change in our society.

That's what I'm getting from his posts, but I could very well be mistaken.
Yes, that's basically what I was saying, and perhaps I should have said it that way in the first place.

Regardless of whether it was conscious/intentional or not, this thread began by situating the topic in a partisan political context. We're playing their game (unwittingly, I hope).
MaxPC wrote:It's about raising awareness of a deteriorating situation and a call to define actions that can witness to Christ and improve the lives around us.
In my observation, people on MN are very well aware that some people say horrible things about their political opponents. If anything, we need a greater awareness of how normal and un-shocking this is. At root, it has nothing to do with our society's political circumstances and everything to do with fallen human nature. When we foreground the political context we detract from this vastly more important point.
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temporal1
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Re: Information Rage?

Post by temporal1 »

Neto wrote: I interpreted the original post as citing this particular case as an example of the social decay, not as a direct response to this particular person or news cast.
Again, I didn't look at the link (if there was one), nor did I look for any other "news" about this particular "event".
I interpreted the personal reference as pertaining to the fact that this was not a "man on the street", but an educated, professional in the education field.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I took the shock as referencing that incongruity, not that it was this particular person, or case.
Perhaps one lesson in this is that our concepts of typical behavior of the different classes of people are skewed - the idea that a college professor is more "professional" in the way he comports himself than "the man on the street". Highly educated people can be just as foul as the stereo-typical construction worker. (Again, my responses have only dealt with the language used, not anything to do with any sort of "death wish", etc. That didn't even attract my attention in the original post, if it was there.)
i read similarly.
in recent months, i have read that some of these "professors" have been suspended or dismissed, which i believe is a requirement, if schools want to retain any respect from the community. students and their families have to dig deep to pay for "higher" education, both in money and time. families are weary of sending their children/young people to these institutions to witness them be turned against their upbringings - at great personal cost. until recently, "everything" was trusted, not so, anymore. Ivy League schools have taken a lot of criticism recently. (but, faith-based colleges are also under well-earned scrutiny.)

it's for the best.
it's not good to put so much unquestioned trust into these institutions which are, after all, only human constructs.

leaders are to be held to greater accountability, i see nothing wrong in requiring that much.
if not, the potential for "wrong" has no bounds .. as is presently on public display.
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Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


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MaxPC
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Re: Information Rage?

Post by MaxPC »

Neto wrote: I interpreted the original post as citing this particular case as an example of the social decay, not as a direct response to this particular person or news cast. Again, I didn't look at the link (if there was one), nor did I look for any other "news" about this particular "event". I interpreted the personal reference as pertaining to the fact that this was not a "man on the street", but an educated, professional in the education field. Maybe I'm wrong, but I took the shock as referencing that incongruity, not that it was this particular person, or case. Perhaps one lesson in this is that our concepts of typical behavior of the different classes of people are skewed - the idea that a college professor is more "professional" in the way he comports himself than "the man on the street". Highly educated people can be just as foul as the stereo-typical construction worker. (Again, my responses have only dealt with the language used, not anything to do with any sort of "death wish", etc. That didn't even attract my attention in the original post, if it was there.)
Yes, Neto: you interpreted that correctly. Social decay in the form of death threats and wishing anyone dead; the absence of the once held professional standards among academics; it's all a shock to me. I come from academia that once insisted on taking the higher ground in discourse instead of the abusive vitriol that seems to be more prevalent. I've been told there have been at least two more professors who've crossed that line in recent months.

When I was first hired, the university gave the new hires a set of expectations regarding professional behavior. These expectations always emphasized our example and role modeling for students. That doesn't seem to be the focus anymore.

I'm most dismayed about the expressions wishing harm and death. Having a job that influences young people means at least exhibiting a model of civilized and courteous behaviors, not one of violence. One of the precepts given us in professional ethics at the university was that we are shaping the future. Wishing harm on others shapes a future of violence.

As Christians who are professionals, the Biblical mandate to be salt and light is spurring me to ask for practical applications of Christian behaviors. Some here have answered that query well, you included. It has been an encouragement for me and hopefully others who encounter cultural vitriol.
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Max (Plain Catholic)
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
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