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US Civics and Government - Procedures
Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2023 1:11 pm
by Ernie
This is a thread to discuss how the US government conducts its business.
You can discuss policies, procedures, bureaucracy and even laws that you don't like. If you want to post a comment in favor of or against a particular party or ideology, please refrain.
Please do not engage in promoting left wing/right wing ideology or critiquing the actions or viewpoints of a particular political party or political leaning in this thread.
Re: US Civics and Government - Procedures
Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2023 1:12 pm
by Ernie
How many House representatives need to vote in favor of adjourning a House session in order to adjourn?
Re: US Civics and Government - Procedures
Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2023 1:20 pm
by Bootstrap
Ernie wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2023 1:12 pm
How many House representatives need to vote in favor of adjourning a House session in order to adjourn?
Trick question ;->
See page 317 of
House Rules and Manual and following. See also chapter 1 of
House Practice: A Guide to the Rules, Precedents, and Procedures of the House.
Because ... nothing with Congress is as simple as all that. Which is why there is someone with the job title "House Parliamentarian" - the guy who has to help members of Congress figure out how this all works.
Re: US Civics and Government - Procedures
Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2023 1:27 pm
by Ernie
Right not congress members are voting to not adjourn congress. I'm wondering if they have to go through voting process with each member, or can they stop the vote and proceed with business at some point.
Re: US Civics and Government - Procedures
Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2023 9:49 am
by Josh
Given how difficult I’ve found committee meetings of just 3 board members can be, I can’t imagine trying to have a deliberative body of 500 people.
Re: US Civics and Government - Procedures
Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2023 11:58 am
by Ken
Josh wrote: ↑Sun Oct 01, 2023 9:49 am
Given how difficult I’ve found committee meetings of just 3 board members can be, I can’t imagine trying to have a deliberative body of 500 people.
That's why most of the work in Congress is done by committees and subcommittees. Full roll call votes are not actually that common and when they have them they usually limit debate time to 40 min or an hour in the House and no one is allowed to speak more than once. So once a bill is put on the House floor there will be a vote within an hour. The leadership (Speaker) doesn't control how people vote, but he/she does have iron-clad control over what reaches the House floor for a vote. So much of the power in Congress comes with deciding what actually ever gets voted on.
The Senate has looser rules and Senators can talk for as long as they want unless there is a cloture vote which requires 60 votes in favor to end debate on a topic. Which is why you often hear that bills require 60 votes in the Senate.
Re: US Civics and Government - Procedures
Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2023 2:30 pm
by Josh
Ken wrote: ↑Sun Oct 01, 2023 11:58 am
Josh wrote: ↑Sun Oct 01, 2023 9:49 am
Given how difficult I’ve found committee meetings of just 3 board members can be, I can’t imagine trying to have a deliberative body of 500 people.
That's why most of the work in Congress is done by committees and subcommittees. Full roll call votes are not actually that common and when they have them they usually limit debate time to 40 min or an hour in the House and no one is allowed to speak more than once. So once a bill is put on the House floor there will be a vote within an hour. The leadership (Speaker) doesn't control how people vote, but he/she does have iron-clad control over what reaches the House floor for a vote. So much of the power in Congress comes with deciding what actually ever gets voted on.
The Senate has looser rules and Senators can talk for as long as they want unless there is a cloture vote which requires 60 votes in favor to end debate on a topic. Which is why you often hear that bills require 60 votes in the Senate.
The original design of the Senate was to represent the states (as opposed to representing the citizenry directly) and basically to allow the states to logjam legislation going through. It's basically meant to be a check on an out of control Congress - and it does seem to do that job fairly well. (This is one reason why all the hullabaloo about Fetterman's mental condition, dress codes, and so on is a bit silly - the Senate is a body that is about as respectable as the House of Lords, which is to say, not very much.)
Of course, the fact Senators leave office heavily enriched should raise a lot of questions. At some point maybe we need to do what NZ did and abolish the Senate. Or go back to letting state legislatures appoint Senators. Direct election of Senators is ridiculous.
Re: US Civics and Government - Procedures
Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2023 2:32 pm
by Ernie
Ernie wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2023 1:12 pm
How many House representatives need to vote in favor of adjourning a House session in order to adjourn?
Ernie wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2023 1:27 pm
Right now congress members are voting to not adjourn congress. I'm wondering if they have to go through voting process with each member, or can they stop the vote and proceed with business at some point.
So how many does it take to adjourn in a session like they had on Saturday?
Re: US Civics and Government - Procedures
Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2023 2:45 pm
by GaryK
Ernie wrote: ↑Sun Oct 01, 2023 2:32 pm
Ernie wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2023 1:12 pm
How many House representatives need to vote in favor of adjourning a House session in order to adjourn?
Ernie wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2023 1:27 pm
Right now congress members are voting to not adjourn congress. I'm wondering if they have to go through voting process with each member, or can they stop the vote and proceed with business at some point.
So how many does it take to adjourn in a session like they had on Saturday?
I was watching the CR vote on C-span and right after it passed someone made a motion to adjourn, it was seconded, and the person in the speakers chair said "everyone in support say aye" and then "everyone opposed say no". There was very little response to both and then the speaker said "the ayes appear to have it" and banged the gavel.
The way I understand it, anyone could have called for a recorded vote before the gavel was banged and a simple majority would have prevailed.
Re: US Civics and Government - Procedures
Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2023 2:52 pm
by Ken
GaryK wrote: ↑Sun Oct 01, 2023 2:45 pm
Ernie wrote: ↑Sun Oct 01, 2023 2:32 pm
Ernie wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2023 1:12 pm
How many House representatives need to vote in favor of adjourning a House session in order to adjourn?
Ernie wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2023 1:27 pm
Right now congress members are voting to not adjourn congress. I'm wondering if they have to go through voting process with each member, or can they stop the vote and proceed with business at some point.
So how many does it take to adjourn in a session like they had on Saturday?
I was watching the CR vote on C-span and right after it passed someone made a motion to adjourn, it was seconded, and the person in the speakers chair said "everyone in support say aye" and then "everyone opposed say no". There was very little response to both and then the speaker said "the ayes appear to have it" and banged the gavel.
The way I understand it, anyone could have called for a recorded vote before the gavel was banged and a simple majority would have prevailed.
A ton of Congressional business is done that way. If they had formal roll call votes on every procedural issue it would be interminable and every Senator and Congressman would be hugely annoyed to have to show up and vote for all that stuff.
So there are curmudgeons who sometimes force votes on procedural issues. Rand Paul, Bernie Sanders, and Ted Cruz have done that sort of thing in the Senate and it just makes everyone mad at them. Same in the House. And then when they go to get cosponsors for their pet issues people ignore them because they are disliked. So there is a disincentive to be obstructionist.
Lately in the House though, there is a faction that just wants to obstruct for obstruction's sake. They don't really have their own legislative agendas to advance. So that is harder to deal with.