Abusing the DOJ - Trump, Biden

[Bootstrap]

Fine, DOJ employees are answerable to the DOJ chain of command which goes up to the president.

OK. So did Trump have the right and authority to hold people in the DOJ accountable (including firing them), or not?

Suppose a policeman stops a mayor for speeding. Does he have the right and authority to fire that policeman? Does that mayor have the right and authority to demand that the police arrest his political opponent? I think it's the same principle. And it's all about whether we want to live in a corrupt police state or not.

So yes, the police chief reports to the mayor in many cities. But the mayor does not have the right to use the police for his personal goals or for his political goals. Would you want it to be any other way?

[Bootstrap]

Furthermore, the independence of the DOJ from the president is a longstanding tradition in the US government.

And a very important tradition. If there is evidence that Biden is abusing this power the Democrats should replace him as their candidate.

(Same with the Republicans and Trump.)

Exactly.

If the offenses are equally serious and equally true, with equal evidence, the outcome should be the same.

[Ken]

Fine, DOJ employees are answerable to the DOJ chain of command which goes up to the president.

OK. So did Trump have the right and authority to hold people in the DOJ accountable (including firing them), or not?

Yes he did. He had the right to fire FBI director James Comey and Attorney General Jeff Sessions. Which he, in fact, did.

But as we have found out, he wasn't doing that to hold them accountable to the law and Constitution. He was doing that to hide his own corruption.

[Grace]

Fine, DOJ employees are answerable to the DOJ chain of command which goes up to the president.

OK. So did Trump have the right and authority to hold people in the DOJ accountable (including firing them), or not?

Suppose a policeman stops a mayor for speeding. Does he have the right and authority to fire that policeman? Does that mayor have the right and authority to demand that the police arrest his political opponent? I think it's the same principle. And it's all about whether we want to live in a corrupt police state or not.

So yes, the police chief reports to the mayor in many cities. But the mayor does not have the right to use the police for his personal goals or for his political goals. Would you want it to be any other way?

Comey deserved to be fired. He was a liar and pushed the fake Steele Dossier.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/comey-b ... d=54488781
https://www.foxnews.com/media/new-york- ... le-dossier
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news ... terference


The analogy given doesn’t apply to the situation with Comey’s firing. Suppose the police officer who stopped the mayor, spread a blatant lie, through various news outlets and other places, that the mayor committed vile acts in a local motel room. Wouldn’t the mayor have the right to fire the officer?

[Grace]

Fine, DOJ employees are answerable to the DOJ chain of command which goes up to the president.

OK. So did Trump have the right and authority to hold people in the DOJ accountable (including firing them), or not?

Yes he did. He had the right to fire FBI director James Comey and Attorney General Jeff Sessions. Which he, in fact, did.

But as we have found out, he wasn't doing that to hold them accountable to the law and Constitution. He was doing that to hide his own corruption.

Trump fired Comey because he was corrupt and a liar. Comey promoted the Steele Dossier and said it was credible. We all know that the Steele Dossier was fake and Comey needed to be held accountable for promoting that lie.

[Josh]

Fine, DOJ employees are answerable to the DOJ chain of command which goes up to the president.

OK. So did Trump have the right and authority to hold people in the DOJ accountable (including firing them), or not?

Suppose a policeman stops a mayor for speeding. Does he have the right and authority to fire that policeman?

Yes, he does. It's up to the voters to then remove the mayor if they didn't like that.

If he doesn't have the authority... then quis custodiet ipsos custodes? I do not think unelected bureaucrats (or unelected police officers) should have absolute power and be immune from removal by the people's elected representatives.

In particular, the President has absolute authority over the executive branch. If we elected officers like the Attorney General, it would be a different situation.

[Bootstrap]

OK. So did Trump have the right and authority to hold people in the DOJ accountable (including firing them), or not?

Suppose a policeman stops a mayor for speeding. Does he have the right and authority to fire that policeman?

Yes, he does. It's up to the voters to then remove the mayor if they didn't like that.

If he doesn't have the authority... then quis custodiet ipsos custodes? I do not think unelected bureaucrats (or unelected police officers) should have absolute power and be immune from removal by the people's elected representatives.

In particular, the President has absolute authority over the executive branch. If we elected officers like the Attorney General, it would be a different situation.

If you believe that, then for consistency, nobody from the DOJ needs to respond to Congress when they ask questions about Hunter Biden. Do you really believe that?

[Josh]

If you believe that, then for consistency, nobody from the DOJ needs to respond to Congress when they ask questions about Hunter Biden. Do you really believe that?

Special rules can be made specifically for Congress to compel the executive branch to do certain things (which in my view is lawful).

[Bootstrap]

Trump fired Comey because he was corrupt and a liar. Comey promoted the Steele Dossier and said it was credible. We all know that the Steele Dossier was fake and Comey needed to be held accountable for promoting that lie.

Please show me where Comey promoted the Steele Dossier and said it was credible or verified or anything like that.

I don't think that he did. I think he was very clear that much of it was unverified.

Comey was fired when FBI was actively investigating possible ties between the Trump campaign and Russia's interference in the 2016 U.S. presidential election. A lot of people thought that looked like an attempt to obstruct or influence the ongoing investigation. Given the timing, I don't know another good explanation.

[Bootstrap]

If you believe that, then for consistency, nobody from the DOJ needs to respond to Congress when they ask questions about Hunter Biden. Do you really believe that?

Special rules can be made specifically for Congress to compel the executive branch to do certain things (which in my view is lawful).

For Trump as well. Which is how we got the Mueller Investigation and how we got the two impeachments. So the same rules apply to both Presidents, right?