Senate drops dress code

Events occurring and how they relate/affect Anabaptist faith and culture.
Ken
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Re: Senate drops dress code

Post by Ken »

Szdfan wrote: Tue Sep 19, 2023 6:23 pm Not everyone seems to be upset:

https://apnews.com/article/senate-dress ... 91865134d3
Not all Republicans were upset about the change. Missouri Sen. Josh Hawley was wearing jeans, boots and no tie on Monday evening, an outfit he says he normally wears when he flies in from his home state for the first votes of the week.

“Now I can vote from the Senate floor on Mondays,” Hawley said, noting that he usually wears a suit and tie every other day.

Nearby, Connecticut Sen. Chris Murphy was also tieless. The Democrat said he’s been reprimanded by Sergeant-at-Arms staff in the past for not wearing a tie on the floor.

“They would tell us when we were doing it wrong,” Murphy said.

It’s unclear if the rules for more formal attire were actually written down anywhere, but Schumer’s directive means that staff will no longer scold senators for their choice of clothing or ask them to vote from the doorway.
So am I correct in understanding that there never was a formal, written policy?
I don't think there was ever an actual written dress code in Congress at either the House or Senate (they make their own separate rules). I think it was the sort of thing that Senate leadership just enforced. The place is steeped in custom, much of it unwritten. With the more senior folks passing on the customs to the newer people. And the newer/younger people always go with the flow because they want to actually increase their power and privilege and you don't do that by getting crosswise with leadership.

For example, I worked there for about a year in the 1990s as a committee staffer. I was employed by NOAA but actually on-loan to the Senate Oceans and Fisheries subcommittee as an agency liaison when they were reauthorizing the Magnuson Act (fisheries) and Marine Mammal Protection Act. So I worked in a Senate office building with the other committee staff. Back then the dress code for staff was pretty explicit. You wore coat and tie when the Senate was in session (either suit or blazer and slacks). And women wore suits, hose, and dress shoes. When the Senate was in recess (staff still worked full time during recesses) the dress code was relaxed and you could wear khakis and open collar shirts, no tie. The women would wear summer casual clothing and sandals without hose (DC is HOT in the summer). There was never any written rule to this effect that I was aware of. You just knew it and it was passed down from senior staff to junior staff and they would let you know if you were out of step. Most guys would keep a blue blazer and tie hanging in their cubical so if you happened to get called into any important meeting, even when the Senate was in recess you would just pop it on.

There was also some differentiation by profession. Senate staff who were attorneys were always WAY more dressed up with expensive suits and posh ties than staff who were economists and scientists. You could just look around the table at a meeting and tell who were the attorneys and who were the scientists and economists.

What seems a little different today compared to the 1990s is that more and more legislators seem to be creating their own private media followings and seem to be building their power base that way rather than the traditional way of working your way up. Especially in the house where we have all these younger firebrand types who spend all their time on Twitter and social media and the endless stream of right-wing media rather than working their way up through the ranks. That seems new. And so I think you have more people pushing the envelope because they don't care about traditions.
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Grace
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Re: Senate drops dress code

Post by Grace »

In protest to the change in dress code standards, Senator
Susan Collins threatened to come to the senate floor in a bikini. She said, “I think there is a certain dignity that we should be maintaining in the Senate, and to do away with the dress code, to me, debases the institution,”
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Szdfan
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Re: Senate drops dress code

Post by Szdfan »

Grace wrote: Tue Sep 19, 2023 8:56 pm In protest to the change in dress code standards, Senator
Susan Collins threatened to come to the senate floor in a bikini. She said, “I think there is a certain dignity that we should be maintaining in the Senate, and to do away with the dress code, to me, debases the institution,”
I think Collins should show up in a bikini on the Senate floor. It wouls be interesting and amusing.
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Sliceitup
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Re: Senate drops dress code

Post by Sliceitup »

I’m wondering if anyone from the forum regrets their harsh judgement of Fetterman’s cognitive abilities due to how stunted his speaking was, now that he seems to be speaking quite well again?
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Szdfan
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Re: Senate drops dress code

Post by Szdfan »

Sliceitup wrote: Tue Sep 19, 2023 10:58 pm I’m wondering if anyone from the forum regrets their harsh judgement of Fetterman’s cognitive abilities due to how stunted his speaking was, now that he seems to be speaking quite well again?
I think that's an excellent question.
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Szdfan
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Re: Senate drops dress code

Post by Szdfan »

Ken wrote: Tue Sep 19, 2023 6:52 pm I don't think there was ever an actual written dress code in Congress at either the House or Senate (they make their own separate rules). I think it was the sort of thing that Senate leadership just enforced. The place is steeped in custom, much of it unwritten.
I think I would be more sympathetic to the outrage if there was some sort of written policy. I get the Senate is a place with a lot of tradition, but I also think unwritten policies that are enforced according to someone's whim are bad for institutions.
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Ken
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Re: Senate drops dress code

Post by Ken »

Szdfan wrote: Tue Sep 19, 2023 11:33 pm
Ken wrote: Tue Sep 19, 2023 6:52 pm I don't think there was ever an actual written dress code in Congress at either the House or Senate (they make their own separate rules). I think it was the sort of thing that Senate leadership just enforced. The place is steeped in custom, much of it unwritten.
I think I would be more sympathetic to the outrage if there was some sort of written policy. I get the Senate is a place with a lot of tradition, but I also think unwritten policies that are enforced according to someone's whim are bad for institutions.
How much of Conservative Anabaptist rules are unwritten versus codified in some written rulebook?

I honestly don't know the answer to that question. Do all the different variations of Amish have written rules for things like black versus yellow top buggies, all the specificity of their dress and so forth? Or are they just agreed to customs that are passed down and enforced by elders through word of mouth and "that is just how we do things?"

I'm sure someone closer to the Amish world can tell us. But I suspect much of it is oral tradition enforced by church elders. Is that bad for those institutions?

I suspect that the Amish world and the arcane world of Senate traditions share a lot of similarity in that respect.
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Szdfan
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Re: Senate drops dress code

Post by Szdfan »

Ken wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2023 1:00 am
Szdfan wrote: Tue Sep 19, 2023 11:33 pm
Ken wrote: Tue Sep 19, 2023 6:52 pm I don't think there was ever an actual written dress code in Congress at either the House or Senate (they make their own separate rules). I think it was the sort of thing that Senate leadership just enforced. The place is steeped in custom, much of it unwritten.
I think I would be more sympathetic to the outrage if there was some sort of written policy. I get the Senate is a place with a lot of tradition, but I also think unwritten policies that are enforced according to someone's whim are bad for institutions.
How much of Conservative Anabaptist rules are unwritten versus codified in some written rulebook?

I honestly don't know the answer to that question. Do all the different variations of Amish have written rules for things like black versus yellow top buggies, all the specificity of their dress and so forth? Or are they just agreed to customs that are passed down and enforced by elders through word of mouth and "that is just how we do things?"

I'm sure someone closer to the Amish world can tell us. But I suspect much of it is oral tradition enforced by church elders. Is that bad for those institutions?

I suspect that the Amish world and the arcane world of Senate traditions share a lot of similarity in that respect.
I think the Amish and the Senate are very different beasts. The Amish aren't an institution in the same way that the Senate is.

The Amish set of rules of each local colony are the "Ordnung:"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordnung
The Ordnung is a set of rules for Amish, Old Order Mennonite and Conservative Mennonite living. Ordnung (pronounced [ˈɔʁdnʊŋ] i) is the German word for order, discipline, rule, arrangement, organization, or system. Because the Amish have no central church government, each assembly is autonomous and is its own governing authority. Thus, every local church maintains an individual set of rules, adhering to its own Ordnung, which may vary from district to district as each community administers its own guidelines. These rules are largely unwritten, yet they define the very essence of Amish identity. Conservative Mennonites refer to Ordnung by the English terms "discipline" or "standard" and are usually written.
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Ken
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Re: Senate drops dress code

Post by Ken »

Szdfan wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2023 3:59 pm
Ken wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2023 1:00 am
Szdfan wrote: Tue Sep 19, 2023 11:33 pm
I think I would be more sympathetic to the outrage if there was some sort of written policy. I get the Senate is a place with a lot of tradition, but I also think unwritten policies that are enforced according to someone's whim are bad for institutions.
How much of Conservative Anabaptist rules are unwritten versus codified in some written rulebook?

I honestly don't know the answer to that question. Do all the different variations of Amish have written rules for things like black versus yellow top buggies, all the specificity of their dress and so forth? Or are they just agreed to customs that are passed down and enforced by elders through word of mouth and "that is just how we do things?"

I'm sure someone closer to the Amish world can tell us. But I suspect much of it is oral tradition enforced by church elders. Is that bad for those institutions?

I suspect that the Amish world and the arcane world of Senate traditions share a lot of similarity in that respect.
I think the Amish and the Senate are very different beasts. The Amish aren't an institution in the same way that the Senate is.

The Amish set of rules of each local colony are the "Ordnung:"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordnung
The Ordnung is a set of rules for Amish, Old Order Mennonite and Conservative Mennonite living. Ordnung (pronounced [ˈɔʁdnʊŋ] i) is the German word for order, discipline, rule, arrangement, organization, or system. Because the Amish have no central church government, each assembly is autonomous and is its own governing authority. Thus, every local church maintains an individual set of rules, adhering to its own Ordnung, which may vary from district to district as each community administers its own guidelines. These rules are largely unwritten, yet they define the very essence of Amish identity. Conservative Mennonites refer to Ordnung by the English terms "discipline" or "standard" and are usually written.
Of course the Senate and Amish are different worlds.

But they do share a commonality in that they both adhere to unwritten rules and customs that are passed down generation after generation and that are enforced by elders.
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Szdfan
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Re: Senate drops dress code

Post by Szdfan »

Ken wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2023 4:35 pm
Szdfan wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2023 3:59 pm
Ken wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2023 1:00 am

How much of Conservative Anabaptist rules are unwritten versus codified in some written rulebook?

I honestly don't know the answer to that question. Do all the different variations of Amish have written rules for things like black versus yellow top buggies, all the specificity of their dress and so forth? Or are they just agreed to customs that are passed down and enforced by elders through word of mouth and "that is just how we do things?"

I'm sure someone closer to the Amish world can tell us. But I suspect much of it is oral tradition enforced by church elders. Is that bad for those institutions?

I suspect that the Amish world and the arcane world of Senate traditions share a lot of similarity in that respect.
I think the Amish and the Senate are very different beasts. The Amish aren't an institution in the same way that the Senate is.

The Amish set of rules of each local colony are the "Ordnung:"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordnung
The Ordnung is a set of rules for Amish, Old Order Mennonite and Conservative Mennonite living. Ordnung (pronounced [ˈɔʁdnʊŋ] i) is the German word for order, discipline, rule, arrangement, organization, or system. Because the Amish have no central church government, each assembly is autonomous and is its own governing authority. Thus, every local church maintains an individual set of rules, adhering to its own Ordnung, which may vary from district to district as each community administers its own guidelines. These rules are largely unwritten, yet they define the very essence of Amish identity. Conservative Mennonites refer to Ordnung by the English terms "discipline" or "standard" and are usually written.
Of course the Senate and Amish are different worlds.

But they do share a commonality in that they both adhere to unwritten rules and customs that are passed down generation after generation and that are enforced by elders.
Sure, but I think that unwritten rules are an issue an institution, where it might not be as big as an issue with a religious and ethnic group.
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“It’s easy to make everything a conspiracy when you don’t know how anything works.” — Brandon L. Bradford
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