Is Trump legally qualified to be a presidential candidate?

[Grace]

Let's start here: without first doing anything like a serious investigation or a jury trial, there's this huge coordinated campaign promoting the belief that all of these things are true. It's personal. It's polarizing. It's repeated, loudly, every single day. Believing these claims is central to a particular identity, whether or not the claims are true.

Suppose they did this to you. You would be completely innocent, but you would already have good reason to fear. People have been receiving death threats, they have had to hire security, some people have needed to move out of their homes, and some of this is clearly about claims that are demonstrably false. Rile people up enough, and perfectly innocent people have plenty to fear.

Mob rule or democracy. Which do you want?

Not sure who you are talking about. Sounds like Biden and his DOJ and FBI.

https://oversight.house.gov/release/hea ... %EF%BF%BC/
https://www.grassley.senate.gov/news/ne ... -officials
https://judiciary.house.gov/media/press ... rents-with
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-fbi-an ... s-a2021275

[Ken]

Has he been convicted of those 90 felonies at this point?

That is obviously what the trials are for and why we need to hold them. Or do you think that Trump is uniquely above the law?

At this point he has not been convicted of committing 90 felonies as was purported in a prior posts. And no he isn't above the law. It is only Biden who gets a pass because he is an "elderly man with a poor memory." According to the Hur Report.

[Ken]

Has he been convicted of those 90 felonies at this point?

That is obviously what the trials are for and why we need to hold them. Or do you think that Trump is uniquely above the law?

At this point he has not been convicted of committing 90 felonies as was purported in a prior posts. And no he isn't above the law. It is only Biden who gets a pass because he is an "elderly man with a poor memory." According to the Hur Report.

Actually Trump, Biden and Pence all received identical treatment from the government for the same actions.

All three retained classified documents after leaving office. All three were notified of this fact. And all three subsequently returned documents back to the government after their discovery. None of them, not Biden, not Pence, and not Trump were charged for any documents that they RETURNED when requested, including Trump who’s staff did return some documents when they were first notified by the National Archives.

Where they differ is that Trump also obstructed justice and attempted to conceal additional highly classified documents in his possession. Something that neither Biden nor Pence did. All of Trump’s document-related charges stem from this obstruction of justice in which Trump defied subpoenas and actively obstructed search warrants and took a lot of extraordinary steps to conceal documents in his possession from the government.

So to summarize for all three men:

• Classified documents that were returned after they were discovered: No charges
• Classified documents that were actively concealed in defiance of subpoenas and search warrants: charges

All three men were treated exactly the same by the DOJ for the same acts. Which is as it should be.

[Robert]

All three men were treated exactly the same by the DOJ for the same acts. Which is as it should be.

Two had no legal authority to have classified documents since they were not President. One was and most of the Mar a lago documents were shipped to Trump, then later claimed he took them. He did return a lot, but there was a dispute on the rest. A president can declassify any document at any time legally.

I think the raid was for something other than those documents and they were used as cover to get what they wanted. They did not get what the wanted and they are pressing him in court because they did not. There is a certain binder with information that certain people do not want out. Trump has it. Well, had it. Right now no one seems to know where it is at and Trump is not telling.

[Grace]

That is obviously what the trials are for and why we need to hold them. Or do you think that Trump is uniquely above the law?

At this point he has not been convicted of committing 90 felonies as was purported in a prior posts. And no he isn't above the law. It is only Biden who gets a pass because he is an "elderly man with a poor memory." According to the Hur Report.

Actually Trump, Biden and Pence all received identical treatment from the government for the same actions.

All three retained classified documents after leaving office. All three were notified of this fact. And all three subsequently returned documents back to the government after their discovery. None of them, not Biden, not Pence, and not Trump were charged for any documents that they RETURNED when requested, including Trump who’s staff did return some documents when they were first notified by the National Archives.

Where they differ is that Trump also obstructed justice and attempted to conceal additional highly classified documents in his possession. Something that neither Biden nor Pence did. All of Trump’s document-related charges stem from this obstruction of justice in which Trump defied subpoenas and actively obstructed search warrants and took a lot of extraordinary steps to conceal documents in his possession from the government.

So to summarize for all three men:

• Classified documents that were returned after they were discovered: No charges
• Classified documents that were actively concealed in defiance of subpoenas and search warrants: charges

All three men were treated exactly the same by the DOJ for the same acts. Which is as it should be.

Apparently they rifled though Melania's personal items. Where did he hide those documents....in her panty drawer?

[Ken]

At this point he has not been convicted of committing 90 felonies as was purported in a prior posts. And no he isn't above the law. It is only Biden who gets a pass because he is an "elderly man with a poor memory." According to the Hur Report.

Actually Trump, Biden and Pence all received identical treatment from the government for the same actions.

All three retained classified documents after leaving office. All three were notified of this fact. And all three subsequently returned documents back to the government after their discovery. None of them, not Biden, not Pence, and not Trump were charged for any documents that they RETURNED when requested, including Trump who’s staff did return some documents when they were first notified by the National Archives.

Where they differ is that Trump also obstructed justice and attempted to conceal additional highly classified documents in his possession. Something that neither Biden nor Pence did. All of Trump’s document-related charges stem from this obstruction of justice in which Trump defied subpoenas and actively obstructed search warrants and took a lot of extraordinary steps to conceal documents in his possession from the government.

So to summarize for all three men:

• Classified documents that were returned after they were discovered: No charges
• Classified documents that were actively concealed in defiance of subpoenas and search warrants: charges

All three men were treated exactly the same by the DOJ for the same acts. Which is as it should be.

Apparently they rifled though Melania's personal items. Where did he hide those documents....in her panty drawer?

What do you think happens during the execution of a search warrant?

Trump could have avoided all of it if he wasn't such a habitual criminal.

[Ken]

All three men were treated exactly the same by the DOJ for the same acts. Which is as it should be.

Two had no legal authority to have classified documents since they were not President. One was and most of the Mar a lago documents were shipped to Trump, then later claimed he took them. He did return a lot, but there was a dispute on the rest. A president can declassify any document at any time legally.

I think the raid was for something other than those documents and they were used as cover to get what they wanted. They did not get what the wanted and they are pressing him in court because they did not. There is a certain binder with information that certain people do not want out. Trump has it. Well, had it. Right now no one seems to know where it is at and Trump is not telling.

You actually have it completely backwards. The ONLY one who was actually in office when discovery of documents occurred was Biden.

Trump was out of office and a private citizen when it was discovered that he was holding classified documents.
Pence was out of office and a private citizen when it was discovered that he was holding classified documents.
Biden was president when it was discovered that he was holding classified documents.

Yes, Trump could have declassified documents when he was still president. But he didn't. Declassification is not something you do with a magic wand or psychic powers. It is an actual administrative process that creates a declassification paper trail such that the office that originated the documents maintains the proper classification on the original copies.

For example. Say there is a top secret CIA document on some topic like Iranian nuclear capabilities. Trump might be provided a COPY of that document in a briefing that will be appropriately labeled and jacketed. If he wants to declassify it he would order it done, some aid would put a declassification memo in front of him that he would sign, and then that order would go back to the originating agency (in this case the CIA) so that they could change the classification status on the original document and any other outstanding copies. Nothing of the sort happened with Trump. And he is actually recorded at Mar a Lago saying to guests to whom he was showing top secret documents "these documents are top secret classified. I could have declassified them when I was still president but I didn't" Yes, really. He actually did and said that.

[Josh]

That is obviously what the trials are for and why we need to hold them. Or do you think that Trump is uniquely above the law?

If these “felonies” were so serious perhaps they should have been prosecuted before 2016.

So like the movie Minority Report. Use a time machine to see into the future and then throw him in jail and prosecute him for crimes that he has not yet committed?

… the “business records” case is about activity long before 2016. Which is why it’s rather concerning. Trump was a public figure and if this really was a big deal and the DA is also politically impartial, why wasn’t he prosecuted back then?

[Robert]

Biden was president when it was discovered that he was holding classified documents.

Documents he took when a senator and had no authority to take them.

[Bootstrap]

Back on page 55, there was a moderator request to stay on topic.

Most of the past two pages have nothing to do with the topic. Good discussion, but please find the right place to have it.

I think it would be helpful to clarify what "the topic" is. I think the topic is "Is Trump legally qualified to be a presidential candidate?" As far as I can tell, the only thing Trump is charged for that is even vaguely related to his qualification to run involves his role in January 6th, when a crowd invaded the capitol and occupied it to prevent the election results from being certified. And the main question was whether states could make that decision individually.

On March 4th, the Supreme Court ruled that only Congress can decide that a president is not qualified to run for election:

https://www.scotusblog.com/2024/03/supr ... urrection/

The Supreme Court on Monday ruled that states cannot disqualify former President Donald Trump from the ballot for his role in the Jan. 6, 2021, attacks on the U.S. Capitol. In an unsigned opinion, a majority of the justices held that only Congress – and not the states – can enforce Section 3 of the 14th Amendment, which was enacted in the wake of the Civil War to disqualify individuals from holding office who had previously served in the federal or state government before the war but then supported the Confederacy, against candidates for federal offices.

That was a new decision in March, but all 9 justices agreed on it, and we now have clarity. There is basically zero chance that Congress will say Trump is not qualified between now and the election. If we stay on topic in this thread, it will probably die out.

Or is the topic something else?