The average male produces over 500 billion sperm cells in his live and sheds at least a billion of them per month. All of those are living human organisms. They are alive and have human DNA. The more relevant question in my mind is when does an embryo become a human individual with a soul? Theology and scripture does not give us very satisfactory answers to that question. I provided one based answer on my own thinking about the topic. You (and everyone else) is more than welcome to come up with your own.HondurasKeiser wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 10:32 pmOne wonders also why “cogito ergo sum” and Rene Descartes of all people should be the standard by which the humanity of a being is determined.GaryK wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 10:17 pmBut everyone agrees that when a baby is born it has its own identity that is separate from the mother's. Are you saying that up until the time the clump of cells becomes a separate self-aware individual with thoughts and emotions there is no difference between the embryo and the mother? It's just part of the mother, like her hand or foot or teeth?Ken wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 9:45 pm
I gave you an answer: Cogito, ergo sum to quote René Descartes. "I think, therefore I am." When exactly a clump of cells becomes a separate self-aware individual with thoughts and emotions I cannot say. I don't think any of us can. The religions of the world are certainly not of one mind on that question. Neither historically has been the Mennonite church.
That can't be true because that embryo came into being by the sperm of the father fertilizing the egg of the mother and that sperm was never a part of the mother.
I do think that previous Mennonite and Baptist positions on that subject (that I cited above) were far more humble and thoughtful than the more absolutist pro-life positions of today. I simply don't think the theology on this subject lends itself to black and white criminal law or criminalization of what is a very complex and nuanced topic. I think we were far more thoughtful and humble about this subject back then. And I think that sort of approach will gain more success long term than hard-line criminalization which is only generating overwhelming backlash.
Since the repeal of Roe, every single place in this country where the subject has come up for public vote, the public has voted to preserve abortion rights. Even in crimson red states like Kansas and Kentucky. So no, I don't think the modern pro-life movement is learning anything. Or to put it another way, they are learning the hard way that we don't live in a theocracy.