US Supreme Court in 2023

[HondurasKeiser]

What is WASP?

For interesting reading Google WASP families and Boston Brahmins.

A fun little ditty I learned a long time ago about the Boston WASPS: “Here’s to the town of Boston, The land of the bean and the cod, Where the Lowells speak only to Cabots, And the Cabots speak only to God.”

[barnhart]

Why do you think there are seven Catholic judges on the Supreme Court (six conservatives), one Jew, and one mainline Protestant. The Catholic dominance has been in effect since the 1990's. Why no Evangelicals?

Evangelicalism hasn't proven to be furtile ground for nurturing long term social institutions. The slow work of scholarship often takes a back seat to saving souls or electing presidents.

[Josh]

Why do you think there are seven Catholic judges on the Supreme Court (six conservatives), one Jew, and one mainline Protestant. The Catholic dominance has been in effect since the 1990's. Why no Evangelicals?

Evangelicalism hasn't proven to be furtile ground for nurturing long term social institutions. The slow work of scholarship often takes a back seat to saving souls or electing presidents.

Conversely, institutions that evangelical fundamentalists built have been stolen by liberals. Look at Goshen and EMU.

[Ken]

Conversely, institutions that evangelical fundamentalists built have been stolen by liberals. Look at Goshen and EMU.

That is an absurd statement and not remotely accurate.

For their entire history, both Goshen and EMU have ridden squarely in mainstream of the mainstream Mennonite Church which has now become MC-USA. And for their entire history there has been tension between conservatives and liberals within both the churches themselves and colleges. These are not colleges that were built by evangelical fundamentalists. They were built by Mennonites who have always ranged from liberal to conservative. And far more effort and money was put into building those institutions by people on the liberal side of the Mennonite Church rather than the conservative side who questioned the need for colleges in the first place.

For example, did you know that in 1923 Goshen College was shut down for an entire year due to clashes over doctrine between the college administration, faculty, and students on one side and the more conservative Mennonite Board of Education on the other? That was 100 years ago this year. It even made the New York Times at the time: https://timesmachine.nytimes.com/timesm ... eNumber=14

In fact, the "Old Mennonite Church" as an institution that created Goshen and EMU was not actually formed as an entity until 1898. Prior to that, Mennonite communities in North America functioned mostly as a loose association of local districts and conferences without any centralized institutions. And almost immediately from its founding there was tension between more liberal and conservative elements of the church that have continued to this day. And that tension was, of course, reflected in the colleges. But they have ALWAYS been a project of the more liberal side of the church and that is who has been funding those institutions by sending their children there, making alumni donations, supporting the endowments, and so forth. Most definitely NOT some evangelical fundamentalist branch of the Mennonite Church. Conservatives have never really supported those colleges going back to 1923 and before. My parents are EMU grads from the 1950s and they have been supporting that school every since as alumni as have thousands of others exactly like them. And they are not evangelical fundamentalists. It is they and thousands of others like them who built those schools.

Now both schools are continuing to evolve in to what are basically just small faith-based regional liberal arts colleges that are going through the same struggles as all of their peers. But they aren't being "stolen by liberals" It would be more accurate to say that they are being abandoned by the current generation of Mennonites who don't feel the urgency or requirement to attend Mennonite colleges anymore like their parents and grandparents did. Now both schools have a minority of students with Mennonite roots even if the administration and faculty are still predominantly Mennonite. These are not "liberals" taking over. It is mostly just local students from the region and from all walks of life who just want to go to a private faith-based college over a big public school and who are willing to pay a premium to do so.

[Josh]

The old MC was a thoroughly fundamentalist institution by the 1900s.

Universities are almost always the first thing to be targeted for attack and takeover by liberals. This isn’t a controversial take, Ken. After they are turned into liberal indoctrination facilities, then people complain that evangelicals or fundamentalists are “anti intellectual” or “aren’t building social institutions”.

[HondurasKeiser]

Conversely, institutions that evangelical fundamentalists built have been stolen by liberals. Look at Goshen and EMU.

That is an absurd statement and not remotely accurate.

For their entire history, both Goshen and EMU have ridden squarely in mainstream of the mainstream Mennonite Church which has now become MC-USA. And for their entire history there has been tension between conservatives and liberals within both the churches themselves and colleges. These are not colleges that were built by evangelical fundamentalists. They were built by Mennonites who have always ranged from liberal to conservative. And far more effort and money was put into building those institutions by people on the liberal side of the Mennonite Church rather than the conservative side who questioned the need for colleges in the first place.

For example, did you know that in 1923 Goshen College was shut down for an entire year due to clashes over doctrine between the college administration, faculty, and students on one side and the more conservative Mennonite Board of Education on the other? That was 100 years ago this year. It even made the New York Times at the time: https://timesmachine.nytimes.com/timesm ... eNumber=14

In fact, the "Old Mennonite Church" as an institution that created Goshen and EMU was not actually formed as an entity until 1898. Prior to that, Mennonite communities in North America functioned mostly as a loose association of local districts and conferences without any centralized institutions. And almost immediately from its founding there was tension between more liberal and conservative elements of the church that have continued to this day. And that tension was, of course, reflected in the colleges. But they have ALWAYS been a project of the more liberal side of the church and that is who has been funding those institutions by sending their children there, making alumni donations, supporting the endowments, and so forth. Most definitely NOT some evangelical fundamentalist branch of the Mennonite Church. Conservatives have never really supported those colleges going back to 1923 and before. My parents are EMU grads from the 1950s and they have been supporting that school every since as alumni as have thousands of others exactly like them. And they are not evangelical fundamentalists. It is they and thousands of others like them who built those schools.

Now both schools are continuing to evolve in to what are basically just small faith-based regional liberal arts colleges that are going through the same struggles as all of their peers. But they aren't being "stolen by liberals" It would be more accurate to say that they are being abandoned by the current generation of Mennonites who don't feel the urgency or requirement to attend Mennonite colleges anymore like their parents and grandparents did. Now both schools have a minority of students with Mennonite roots even if the administration and faculty are still predominantly Mennonite. These are not "liberals" taking over. It is mostly just local students from the region and from all walks of life who just want to go to a private faith-based college over a big public school and who are willing to pay a premium to do so.

"Every organisation appears to be headed by secret agents of its opponents." - Robert Conquest

I don't think you're being intellectually honest about the institutional power that liberals hold in both the Church and her para-organizations. The idea that conservatives at Goshen, whatever that means (LMC-esque evangelicals?) have as much clout or exist in balanced tension with liberals, is belied by a quick perusal of the website and the school paper.

On the homepage and in the academic page, there is no mention of: God, Christianity, Faith, Mennonite, Anabaptist or anything remotely approaching the fact that Goshen is a Christian/Mennonite institution. The purpose of education according to the website is:
"We believe learning is about the common that connects us — the thoughts and feelings, the hopes and dreams we all share."
"At Goshen College, you’ll experience the process of personal discovery through a world-class education that connects you to a real sense of purpose, a sense of self — and to something greater."

These are empty, platitudinous statements that could be the taglines for just about any, generic secular university in America.

In the "About" section of GC the opening 2 paragraphs, the college describes itself, not as a Christian or Mennonite or Christ-centered college, but as "Hispanic-serving" touting how many "students of color" it has:

"Goshen College is a nationally-ranked college and Hispanic-Serving Institution in Indiana; renowned for its purposeful and integrated curriculum, its distinctive hands-on, real-world educational opportunities, and its commitment to creating positive change in the world.

Located in the City of Goshen, the college’s 135-acre tree-filled campus is home to 950 students, including more than 40% that identify as students of color or from countries outside of the U.S. It offers over 65 undergraduate areas of study; as well as best-in-class graduate programs in nursing, business administration, environmental education and social work."

It's not until one finds the mission or vision tab that one discovers that Christ is the center of everything they do. Which apparently includes their annual drag show and inviting trans alum to speak at convocations for the purpose of normalizing LGBTQ+ perspectives.

Compare that to the homepage of Hillsdale College, an explicitly conservative institution: "Learning, character, faith, and freedom: these are the inseparable purposes of Hillsdale College."

"Hillsdale College is a small, Christian, classical liberal arts college in southern Michigan that operates independently of government funding. Our students come from nearly all of the United States and a dozen foreign countries, and drawn to the challenge of a Hillsdale education, they grow in heart and mind by studying timeless truths in a supportive community dedicated to the highest things."

The school paper's opinion section has articles on why it's good to dress up, why you should have children and why it's good for a soon-to-be married couple, to be equally involved in the wedding plans.

[HondurasKeiser]

Why do you think there are seven Catholic judges on the Supreme Court (six conservatives), one Jew, and one mainline Protestant. The Catholic dominance has been in effect since the 1990's. Why no Evangelicals?

From the paper I linked:

Anti-Intellectualism – Richard Hofstadter writes that there was a common reasoning process by which
evangelicals had chosen to evacuate the mind:
One begins with the hardly contestable proposition that religious faith is not, in the main, propagated by
logic or learning. One moves on from this to the idea that it is best propagated (in the judgment of
Christ and on historical evidence) by men who have been unlearned and ignorant. It seems to follow
from this that the kind of wisdom and truth possessed by such men is superior to what learned and
cultivated minds have. In fact, learning and cultivation appear to be handicaps in the propagation of the
faith. And since the propagation of faith is the most important task before man, those who are as
“ignorant as babes” have, in the most fundamental virtue, greater strength than men who have addicted
themselves to logic and learning. Accordingly, though one shrinks from a bald statement of the
conclusion, humble ignorance is far better as a human quality than a cultivated mind. At bottom, this
proposition, despite all the difficulties that attend it, has been eminently congenial both to American
evangelicalism and to American democracy.

[Josh]

For what it’s worth, I’d much rather consult the wisdom of my wife’s grandmother (1st grade education) or mother (Calif. public school thru age 16) than the prognostications of Sotamayor, J., who often displays confusion about things as simple as which Constitutional amendment is which in oral argument.

The Bible speaks that it often takes the simple to confound the wise, and that humility is much more valuable than pride. The well-educated with their JDs failed to recognise that a little baby is a human being who deserves not to be murdered. So how “well educated” are they, really?

[Ken]

I don't think you're being intellectually honest about the institutional power that liberals hold in both the Church and her para-organizations. The idea that conservatives at Goshen, whatever that means (LMC-esque evangelicals?) have as much clout or exist in balanced tension with liberals, is belied by a quick perusal of the website and the school paper.

You are missing my point.

My point was that since the very beginning of the institutional Mennonite Church back in 1898 there has been tension between the liberal and conservative wings of the church which has come to a head at various points such as 1923 and more recently with the spinoff of the Lancaster conference. That has been there since the very beginning.

And from the very beginning, Goshen and EMU were built largely through the efforts of people who have always been on the more liberal side of the church. Both schools have been built over the period of about 120 years or so and that effort has mostly come from the more liberal side of the church. Nothing was "stolen" from conservatives or "evangelical fundamentalists" as Josh put it. They were never much involved in the first place and the most conservative wings of the church have never been supportive of the colleges or of higher education in general.

As for today? It is true that neither school has gone in the direction of Hillsdale College. But that is nothing new. Neither school has ever been on the far conservative edge of Christian higher education like Hillsdale. Not today and not in the past either. Neither school was ever a conservative college like Hillsdale. In fact, if either college went the route of Hillsdale, it would represent the "stealing" by conservatives of institutions that were built by the liberal wing of the church.

[Josh]

So, according to you, since Goshen and EMU’s founding, they were built by the pro-divorce, pro-LGBT liberal wing of the old MC?