Josh wrote: ↑Fri Jul 14, 2023 9:51 pmKen, sometimes I wonder what universe you inhabit. Where does a charge for minor possession affect getting into college? Or qualifying for student loans? Or even getting a job, outside of something that requires a security clearance for the federal government?
I live in the same world as you. A world in which even one single minor drug conviction can affect your ability to get financial aid which puts college out of reach for anyone from a poor family.
I'm having trouble grasping what you're talking about, because it's been a long time since misdemeanour possession affected financial aid. (Felony drug dealing would; do you think felony drug dealers should have the same access to government student loans as people who choose not to deal drugs and stay out of a life of crime?) I used to work at a university, and I can assure you that many people were admitted and got financial aid who had been caught with minor possession before.
Black and White kids use drugs at nearly identical rates. But Black kids are something like 5-times more likely to be arrested and convicted for drug offenses than White kids. Why is that? Two reasons. First, law enforcement targets Black communities for drug enforcement much more heavily than it does White communities. And second, when Black kids are caught they are consistently dealt with more harshly at every step in the criminal justice system from the decision to arrest to decisions about charging, to decisions about sentencing.
The solution is simple:
Stop using illegal drugs.
Stop dealing illegal drugs.
Stop possessing them, stop carrying them in your car, stop smoking drugs in your car.
Josh wrote: ↑Fri Jul 14, 2023 8:26 pmI'm not sure what the "disparity" is here. If you steal money, you should expect to get sentenced for it. If you want a lighter sentence, perhaps you should have a plan to pay it back in full quickly if you do get caught.
Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
And it's not just serious crime.
For example in Texas, a White kid who gets caught with a little bit of pot is much more likely to be released with a warning, or released to his parents with no charges filed. A Black kid caught with the same amount of pot under identical circumstances? Much more likely to be arrested, charged, and convicted for an offense that his White classmate gets a pass on. And because of the way the criminal justice system works, he is essentially railroaded into a plea deal and conviction because the DA can throw enormous charges with long prison sentences at him if he decides to challenge the charge and fight it.
This one single inequity has cascading effects that can be longstanding. The Black kid with an arrest and conviction on his record is now less likely to get a good job, get into college, qualify for student loans and financial aid, and so forth. Life consequences that his White counterpart does not suffer at all.
You may not see the inequity in that. But most people actually do. Is the Supreme Court doing anything about it? Nope. Because that sort of racial discrimination or racial disparity seems to not interest them.
I do not take your word on this. Location and income matters too. Many of these "black" kids are arrested by black officers and tried by a black judge. Prier convictions also may be shading the numbers.
It may be inner city kids get longer sentences and they just happen to be more blacks in the inner city. There could, and suggest is, more things affecting the numbers that are being conveniently ignored, like fatherless homes.
0 x
Try hard not to offend. Try harder not to be offended.
Just because you are paranoid, doesn't mean they are not after you.
I think I am funnier than I really am.
Josh wrote: ↑Fri Jul 14, 2023 8:26 pmI'm not sure what the "disparity" is here. If you steal money, you should expect to get sentenced for it. If you want a lighter sentence, perhaps you should have a plan to pay it back in full quickly if you do get caught.
Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
And it's not just serious crime.
For example in Texas, a White kid who gets caught with a little bit of pot is much more likely to be released with a warning, or released to his parents with no charges filed. A Black kid caught with the same amount of pot under identical circumstances? Much more likely to be arrested, charged, and convicted for an offense that his White classmate gets a pass on. And because of the way the criminal justice system works, he is essentially railroaded into a plea deal and conviction because the DA can throw enormous charges with long prison sentences at him if he decides to challenge the charge and fight it.
This one single inequity has cascading effects that can be longstanding. The Black kid with an arrest and conviction on his record is now less likely to get a good job, get into college, qualify for student loans and financial aid, and so forth. Life consequences that his White counterpart does not suffer at all.
You may not see the inequity in that. But most people actually do. Is the Supreme Court doing anything about it? Nope. Because that sort of racial discrimination or racial disparity seems to not interest them.
I do not take your word on this. Location and income matters too. Many of these "black" kids are arrested by black officers and tried by a black judge. Prier convictions also may be shading the numbers.
It may be inner city kids get longer sentences and they just happen to be more blacks in the inner city. There could, and suggest is, more things affecting the numbers that are being conveniently ignored, like fatherless homes.
You don't have to take my word for it. There are endless studies that have explored this subject and have came to the same conclusion. And yes, they do control for things like prior arrests. For example:
Ken wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 12:10 am
they do control for things like prior arrests.
And that is one factor I shared. There are many others that can affect it. Again, many or arrested and sentenced by black officers, DAs and judges. I see it more of an inner city issue than a race issue.
0 x
Try hard not to offend. Try harder not to be offended.
Just because you are paranoid, doesn't mean they are not after you.
I think I am funnier than I really am.
Ken wrote: ↑Fri Jul 14, 2023 11:35 am
We are very far from a society in which public discrimination does not exist.
I cannot say I have ever witnessed discrimination. Well, maybe once when I heard someone ridiculing the Swartzentruber Amish and I am aware that they are not treated kindly in Ohio.
The NYT had an article about yet another black man who was shot by the police for stealing a few dollars worth of fruit. His mom's words, "It's racial bias." Sigh. He stole and was shot.
I will have to chew on this statement cuz my family is color blind.
Where do you live? Ohio?
In Ohio, the US Sentencing Commission found that Black men receive sentences that are, on average, 19% longer than White men for the same crime and circumstances: https://eji.org/news/disparate-sentence ... injustice/
In other words, if you commit a crime in Ohio, the color of your skin is solely responsible for 1/5th of your sentence.
If that is not discrimination, tell us what is. That seems more serious and inequitable to me than a small number of applicants getting a few extra points boost in the admissions algorithm at a few highly-selective universities.
I live in Maryland, home to a just, equitable society. Discrimination has no home here!
Ken wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 12:10 am
they do control for things like prior arrests.
And that is one factor I shared. There are many others that can affect it. Again, many or arrested and sentenced by black officers, DAs and judges. I see it more of an inner city issue than a race issue.
But racial disparities in criminal justice is not just an inner-city issue. It is present in suburban and rural counties as well, sometimes more so. And not just in Texas but most other states as well.
And it can't just be explained away by other factors. It is far too pervasive for that.
0 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
Maryland leads the nation in incarcerating young Black men, sentenced to the longest prison terms, at a rate 25% higher than the next nearest state — Mississippi.
State has incarcerated the highest percentage of people who are Black in the country, more than twice the national average.
Punitive sentencing policies and restrictive parole release practices in Maryland have resulted in a deeply racially disproportionate criminal justice system that is acutely impacting those serving the longest prison terms. This is true despite a declining prison population and state leadership in Maryland having undertaken criminal justice reform in recent years. As recently as July 2018, more than 70 percent of Maryland’s prison population was black, compared to 31 percent of the state population. The latest data from the Department of Justice show that the proportion of the Maryland prison population that is black is more than double the national average of 32 percent. These disparities are rooted in decades of unbalanced policies that disproportionately over-police under-resourced communities of color, and a criminal justice system focused on punitive sentencing and parole practices.
. . . .
Maryland has the most extreme racial disparities for those incarcerated for long terms in the United States. That should alarm Maryland leadership and its residents. These disparities are rooted in policing practices that target communities of color, a lack of investment and opportunity in historically disadvantaged neighborhoods, and an overly punitive sentencing, parole, and corrections system that focuses on punishment with insufficient attention given to programming and rehabilitative services that have been proven to improve public safety outcomes.
0 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
Ken wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 12:10 am
they do control for things like prior arrests.
And that is one factor I shared. There are many others that can affect it. Again, many or arrested and sentenced by black officers, DAs and judges. I see it more of an inner city issue than a race issue.
But racial disparities in criminal justice is not just an inner-city issue. It is present in suburban and rural counties as well, sometimes more so. And not just in Texas but most other states as well.
And it can't just be explained away by other factors. It is far too pervasive for that.
You can have y our opinion and I have mine.
0 x
Try hard not to offend. Try harder not to be offended.
Just because you are paranoid, doesn't mean they are not after you.
I think I am funnier than I really am.
And that is one factor I shared. There are many others that can affect it. Again, many or arrested and sentenced by black officers, DAs and judges. I see it more of an inner city issue than a race issue.
But racial disparities in criminal justice is not just an inner-city issue. It is present in suburban and rural counties as well, sometimes more so. And not just in Texas but most other states as well.
And it can't just be explained away by other factors. It is far too pervasive for that.
You can have y our opinion and I have mine.
So your opinion is that the disparities exist because more black kids get arrested? How do you explain the disparities?
Sliceitup wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 12:46 pm
So your opinion is that the disparities exist because more black kids get arrested? How do you explain the disparities?
I have already answered this. Scroll back and read.
0 x
Try hard not to offend. Try harder not to be offended.
Just because you are paranoid, doesn't mean they are not after you.
I think I am funnier than I really am.
