If Form 1023

Events occurring and how they relate/affect Anabaptist faith and culture.
User avatar
Bootstrap
Posts: 14652
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:59 am
Affiliation: Mennonite

If Form 1023

Post by Bootstrap »

Grace wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2023 10:16 am I agree that both Trump or Biden should be held accountable for any wrong doing they may have done. However to think that the timing on the Trump Indictments are not part of political ploy is a bit naive, beings the same day the Oversight committee got the SARS report (Suspicious Activity Report) Alvin Bragg indicted Trump. And the same day the Oversight Committee got access to the 1023 form showing bribes between Joe Biden and Ukraine, the Biden DOJ indicted Trump.
I agree, it does look like a political ploy.

Trump's team met with the DOJ before the indictment, he clearly knew this was coming, and he sent out a fundraising campaign within an hour of the indictment, recorded a video before it happened, and planned a media campaign.

The Republican members of the Oversight Committee were all over the news and talk shows with this kind of thing, looking for attention wherever they can find it. Sure looks like they planned the timing to correspond with the media blitz that the Trump team planned to try to distract from the indictment.
1 x
Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?
User avatar
Bootstrap
Posts: 14652
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:59 am
Affiliation: Mennonite

Re: If Form 1023

Post by Bootstrap »

Grace wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2023 10:16 am The Form 1023 is an actual document that was reluctantly given over to the Oversight Committee after they threatened to charge Christopher Wray for contempt of Congress charges. We need to remember that only a few weeks prior, Christopher Wray lied and claimed no such document existed. The existence of form 1023 and that Biden received $5 million from foreign nationals is not propaganda or opinions, it is a fact.
So what is a Form FD-1023?
What are FD-1023s, and why is protecting them important?

As many of you know, the FD-1023 is the form our special agents use to record raw, unverified reporting from confidential human sources (CHSs). FD-1023s merely document that information; they do not reflect the conclusions of investigators based on a fuller context or understanding. Recording this information does not validate it, establish its credibility, or weigh it against other information known or developed by the FBI in our investigations.

The FBI does not consider an FD-1023 proof of anything. Claims made in an FD-1023 are not "fact". In fact, the phrase "raw intelligence" means specifically that it needs further examination, evaluation, and verification before being used to draw conclusions or make informed decisions.

Is there some statement that all the Oversight Committee members agree to about what is in that FD-1023? As far as I can tell, they are making significantly different claims, and there's no way that you or I can see the document. Is there some way we can know if it contains reliable information?

Will there be some kind of public hearing that allows both sides to weigh in, cross examine witnesses, etc? When?

This is so different from an indictment that clearly lays out evidence that they are willing to take to a jury. If there were real proof that Joe Biden accepted the bribe you claim, I'm pretty sure they would be moving to impeach, not making a bunch of noise on the news and in fundraising appeals. But we'll see. Maybe it will actually turn into something real.
2 x
Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?
GaryK
Posts: 2294
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2016 6:24 pm
Location: Georgia
Affiliation: Unaffiliated

Re: If Form 1023

Post by GaryK »

Sen. Chuck Grassley: Burisma Executive has secret audio recordings of calls with Joe Biden
https://www.kusi.com/sen-chuck-grassley ... joe-biden/
0 x
User avatar
Robert
Site Janitor
Posts: 8591
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 4:16 pm
Affiliation: Anabaptist

Re: If Form 1023

Post by Robert »

One side if the issue.

0 x
Try hard not to offend. Try harder not to be offended.
Just because you are paranoid, doesn't mean they are not after you.
I think I am funnier than I really am.
Grace
Posts: 3127
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:26 pm
Location: Pennsylvania
Affiliation: Mennonite

Re: If Form 1023

Post by Grace »

Beyond the 1023 form. An interesting tidbit at the end of this video. Currently there are six big public trade banks that filed bank violations against the Biden family.


0 x
Grace
Posts: 3127
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:26 pm
Location: Pennsylvania
Affiliation: Mennonite

Re: If Form 1023

Post by Grace »

Bootstrap wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2023 6:27 pm

The FBI does not consider an FD-1023 proof of anything. Claims made in an FD-1023 are not "fact". In fact, the phrase "raw intelligence" means specifically that it needs further examination, evaluation, and verification before being used to draw conclusions or make informed decisions.

Is there some statement that all the Oversight Committee members agree to about what is in that FD-1023? As far as I can tell, they are making significantly different claims, and there's no way that you or I can see the document. Is there some way we can know if it contains reliable information?

Will there be some kind of public hearing that allows both sides to weigh in, cross examine witnesses, etc? When?

This is so different from an indictment that clearly lays out evidence that they are willing to take to a jury. If there were real proof that Joe Biden accepted the bribe you claim, I'm pretty sure they would be moving to impeach, not making a bunch of noise on the news and in fundraising appeals. But we'll see. Maybe it will actually turn into something real.

Give it time. The Oversight Committee is still collecting information.
0 x
User avatar
Bootstrap
Posts: 14652
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:59 am
Affiliation: Mennonite

Re: If Form 1023

Post by Bootstrap »

Grace wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2023 10:03 pm
Bootstrap wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2023 6:27 pmThis is so different from an indictment that clearly lays out evidence that they are willing to take to a jury. If there were real proof that Joe Biden accepted the bribe you claim, I'm pretty sure they would be moving to impeach, not making a bunch of noise on the news and in fundraising appeals. But we'll see. Maybe it will actually turn into something real.
Give it time. The Oversight Committee is still collecting information.
I am not a fortune teller. They may well find something impeachable, with real evidence. If they find the kind of wrongdoing that they found for Trump, Biden should be impeached. But it's not a fact until it's a fact. An FD-1023 is only one person's claims, you and I can't know what it actually says, and we don't know if the person who made these claims was telling the truth. People who were briefed on this seem to disagree about what it says.

And I think there are some real issues with the way they are doing this. In a real investigation, you work quietly, gathering information, building a case, out of sight of the media. When you release it, you choose a forum where both sides can weigh in, cross examine witnesses, etc. For a real investigation, you make sure the person leading it is likely to be trusted by all sides, you do not pick someone who himself has been suspected of improper involvement in the matters he is investigating.

That's not what seems to be happening here. Jim Jordan was put in charge. People are mugging for the camera with very little evidence. I don't see a real procedure that looks like an investigation looking for all sides to be weighed. I see people fundraising for their campaigns on the vivid claims they are making. I see people making really strange statements - what does it mean for the FBI to "hide" an FD-1023 from the Oversight Committee? Does Congress normally have access to FD-1023s?
1 x
Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?
User avatar
Robert
Site Janitor
Posts: 8591
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 4:16 pm
Affiliation: Anabaptist

Re: If Form 1023

Post by Robert »

Bootstrap wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2023 9:23 am If they find the kind of wrongdoing that they found for Trump, Biden should be impeached.
What wrong doing with Trump are you talking about?
0 x
Try hard not to offend. Try harder not to be offended.
Just because you are paranoid, doesn't mean they are not after you.
I think I am funnier than I really am.
Ken
Posts: 16342
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:02 am
Location: Washington State
Affiliation: former MCUSA

Re: If Form 1023

Post by Ken »

Robert wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2023 10:59 pm What wrong doing with Trump are you talking about?
Trump is not being indicted for any classified documents that he retained and then later returned to the government after they were discovered. He is only being indicted for documents that he refused to return and then willfully obstructed their return through various illegal acts. The DOJ and special prosecutor actually went easy on Trump for political reasons compared to how they would have treated a more ordinary civilian. Here is a summary from New York Magazine: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/06 ... biden.html
Upon leaving office, the ex-president brought more than 300 highly classified documents to his private residences, including top-secret materials detailing atomic secrets and national security vulnerabilities; he retained these documents for about a year despite government requests for him to return them. His own public statements indicate that his retention of those documents was willful, and he repeatedly expressed a sense of entitlement to their possession, saying that, as president, he had the power to declassify those materials “even by thinking about it.”

Nevertheless, as late as January 2022, the Justice Department was still giving Trump the opportunity to avoid charges by returning the documents he had taken. The indictment released last week makes this point clear.

In January of last year, in response to a subpoena, Trump returned 197 classified documents to the federal government. Despite his willfully retaining those documents for months, the federal indictment released last week does not charge Trump in connection with any of them — which is to say, the DOJ gave Trump a pass on 197 potential counts of willful retention of national defense information. Instead, it charged him with only 31 counts corresponding with the number of highly classified documents Trump knowingly withheld from the government in January 2022 and the FBI later obtained.
In other words, Trump held onto hundreds of classified documents for a year after leaving office, even after repeated requests for their return from the National Archives. He gave them back only after a subpoena. Even so, he did give them back, so the special prosecutor let the whole thing slide.

But then Trump practically forced their hand. Even after NARA requests, even after a subpoena, he held on to dozens more highly classified documents and did everything he possibly could to hide them. The government got them back only after the FBI seized them in a search of Mar-a-Lago months later.

This is the key difference between Trump, Biden, Pence, and Hillary Clinton. Biden had a few classified documents in his possession after his vice presidency, but he promptly and voluntarily returned them when they turned up in a search. Ditto for Pence. Hillary never had any classified documents at all, merely some private email conversations that were mostly about things that were unclassified at the time but were later retroactively classified by the CIA in a routine feud with the State Department over classification standards.

And compared to how the DOJ has treated other more ordinary civilians for similar deliberate retention of classified documents, Trump is getting off easy.
1 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
User avatar
Robert
Site Janitor
Posts: 8591
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 4:16 pm
Affiliation: Anabaptist

Re: If Form 1023

Post by Robert »

According to Robert Barnes and some other constitutional lawyers, a President can do whatever with the documents. Many presidents kept items that was classified at the time. Clinton kept his audio tapes that contained classified info in his sock drawer. A federal judge ruled 10 years ago that a president gets to decide what is his documents, not some archivist.
0 x
Try hard not to offend. Try harder not to be offended.
Just because you are paranoid, doesn't mean they are not after you.
I think I am funnier than I really am.
Post Reply