If Trump deliberately hid classified documents.

[Robert]

On July 27, Federal prosecutors filed additional charges against Trump for ordering his employees to delete surveillance video relevant to the documents case at Mar-a-Lago.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/27/us/p ... ticleShare

Federal prosecutors on Thursday added major accusations to an indictment charging former President Donald J. Trump with mishandling classified documents after he left office, presenting evidence that he told the property manager of Mar-a-Lago, his private club and residence in Florida, that he wanted security camera footage there to be deleted.

The new accusations were revealed in a superseding indictment that named the property manager, Carlos De Oliveira, as a new defendant in the case. He is scheduled to be arraigned in Miami on Monday.

Prosecutors under Mr. Smith had been investigating Mr. De Oliveira for months, concerned, among other things, by his communications with an information technology expert at Mar-a-Lago, Yuscil Taveras, who oversaw the surveillance camera footage at the property.

That footage was central to Mr. Smith’s investigation into whether Mr. Nauta, at Mr. Trump’s request, had moved boxes in and out of a storage room at Mar-a-Lago to avoid complying with a federal subpoena for all classified documents in the former president’s possession. Many of those movements were caught on the surveillance camera footage.

The revised indictment said that in late June of last year, shortly after the government demanded the surveillance footage as part of its inquiry, Mr. Trump called Mr. De Oliveira and they spoke for 24 minutes.

Two days later, the indictment said, Mr. Nauta and Mr. De Oliveira “went to the security guard booth where surveillance video is displayed on monitors, walked with a flashlight through the tunnel where the storage room was located, and observed and pointed out surveillance cameras.”

A few days after that, Mr. De Oliveira went to see Mr. Taveras, who is identified in the indictment as Trump Employee 4, and took him to a small room known as an “audio closet.” There, the indictment said, the two men had a conversation that was meant to “remain between the two of them.”

It was then that Mr. De Oliveira told Mr. Taveras that “‘the boss’ wanted the server deleted,” the indictment said, referring to the computer server holding the security footage.

Mr. Taveras objected and said he did not know how to delete the server and did not think he had the right to do so, the indictment said. At that point, the indictment said, Mr. De Oliveira insisted again that “the boss” wanted the server deleted, asking, “What are we going to do?”

If this video surveillance is really important, why is there no subpoena for it? They have had plenty of time to get it with that wide warrant they used. Something sounds off about this.

[Bootstrap]

If this video surveillance is really important, why is there no subpoena for it? They have had plenty of time to get it with that wide warrant they used. Something sounds off about this.

It all started with a subpoena.

That's when they decided to delete video footage. "The boss wanted the server deleted". Because they were required to turn the video footage over, and they didn't want that to happen.

Why do they decide to destroy evidence when law enforcement asks for it? Something sounds off about this.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/27/us/p ... arged.html

That footage was central to Mr. Smith’s investigation into whether Mr. Nauta, at Mr. Trump’s request, had moved boxes in and out of a storage room at Mar-a-Lago to avoid complying with a federal subpoena for all classified documents in the former president’s possession. Many of those movements were caught on the surveillance camera footage.

The revised indictment said that in late June of last year, shortly after the government demanded the surveillance footage as part of its inquiry, Mr. Trump called Mr. De Oliveira and they spoke for 24 minutes.

Two days later, the indictment said, Mr. Nauta and Mr. De Oliveira “went to the security guard booth where surveillance video is displayed on monitors, walked with a flashlight through the tunnel where the storage room was located, and observed and pointed out surveillance cameras.”

A few days after that, Mr. De Oliveira went to see Mr. Taveras, who is identified in the indictment as Trump Employee 4, and took him to a small room known as an “audio closet.” There, the indictment said, the two men had a conversation that was meant to “remain between the two of them.”

It was then that Mr. De Oliveira told Mr. Taveras that “‘the boss’ wanted the server deleted,” the indictment said, referring to the computer server holding the security footage.

Mr. Taveras objected and said he did not know how to delete the server and did not think he had the right to do so, the indictment said. At that point, the indictment said, Mr. De Oliveira insisted again that “the boss” wanted the server deleted, asking, “What are we going to do?”

Two months later, after the F.B.I. descended on Mar-a-Lago with a search warrant and hauled away about 100 classified documents, people in Mr. Trump’s orbit appeared to be concerned about Mr. De Oliveira’s loyalties.

[Grace]

Unlike Trump, Biden will NOT be charged for deliberately and illegally storing classified documents in his garage. The reason Special Counsel Robert Hur gave was “if Biden were charged, the president could present to a jury “as a sympathetic, well-meaning, elderly man with a poor memory.”

Hur’s report describes Biden’s memory in damning terms, at one point stating that it “appeared to have significant limitations.” The report recounts a recorded 2017 conversation with Mark Zwonitzer – who helped Biden write two memoirs – in unflattering terms.

Mr. Biden’s recorded conversations with Zwonitzer from 2017 are often painfully slow, with Mr. Biden struggling to remember events and straining at times to read and relay his own notebook entries.
In his interview with our office, Mr. Biden’s memory was worse. He did not remember when he was vice president, forgetting on the first day of the interview when his term ended (“if it was 2013 – when did I stop being Vice President?”), and forgetting on the second day of the interview when his term began (“in 2009, am I still Vice President?”). He did not remember, even within several years, when his son Beau died. And his memory appeared hazy when describing the Afghanistan debate that was once so important to him. Among other things, he mistakenly said he “had a real difference” of opinion with General Karl Eikenberry, when, in fact, Eikenberry was an ally whom Mr. Biden cited approvingly in his Thanksgiving memo to President Obama.

https://www.mediaite.com/biden/elderly- ... -son-died/

https://www.justice.gov/storage/report- ... y-2024.pdf


In an interview on CBS News, “60 minutes” Biden was asked about Trump having classified documents at Mar-a-Lago. Biden responded with how "that could possibly happen” and how “anyone could be that irresponsible.” Later he said about classified documents, “I read it; I lock it back up and give it to the military.” He was either lying through his teeth or forgot.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/ ... 022762002/

Hillary Clinton got off the hook for illegally mishandling classified documents, now Biden, the same.

[temporal1]

CAREER POLITICIAN PRIVILEGE

Grace:
.. Hillary Clinton got off the hook for illegally mishandling classified documents, now Biden, the same. ..

“Guilty as sin, will not be charged.”
It was shocking “as all get-out” the first time, wasn’t it?

Not that they do it, incompetence married to corruption is expected.

The shock is when they describe it, when they say the quiet part in public, out loud.

[Ken]

Trump, Biden, and Pence were all treated exactly the same. Absolutely no difference.

In all 3 cases there were classified documents discovered in each of their possession that they returned to the government and no charges were forthcoming.

In Trump's case there were no charges at all for any documents that he kept and then subsequently returned when requested. Trump handed back hundreds of documents and wasn't charged for a single one that he voluntarily returned like Biden and Pence.

All of Trump's charges stem from the documents that he REFUSED to return and from his actions to actively obstruct their return through all manner of illegal acts. Something that neither Biden nor Pence did which explains why they were never charged.

Hillary Clinton's case is different. She was never accused of retaining any classified documents after she left office. She was accused of using a non-government email accounts or communication methods to discuss certain classified topics while she was in office. Something that is apparently common practice across high levels of government and something that many high-ranking Trump officials did with great frequency, including Trump himself who conducted much government business over a non-government cell phone. And something that no other government official has ever been charged with that I know of.

[Josh]

Trump, Biden, and Clinton were indeed all treated the same:

Democrats get treated with kid gloves and allowed to get away with anything.

Republicans get trumped up charges to try to personally ruin them.

It is, indeed, consistent. But it is also very very bad for the future of democracy in America.

[Ken]

Trump, Biden, and Clinton were indeed all treated the same:

Democrats get treated with kid gloves and allowed to get away with anything.

Republicans get trumped up charges to try to personally ruin them.

It is, indeed, consistent. But it is also very very bad for the future of democracy in America.

The term you used is apropos. Trump is the one who "Trumped-up" his own charges but behaving egregiously worse than any other president in history, Republican or Democrat.

[Grace]

Trump, Biden, and Pence were all treated exactly the same. Absolutely no difference.

The reason Special Counsel Robert Hur gave was for not charging Biden was - “if Biden were charged, the president could present to a jury “as a sympathetic, well-meaning, elderly man with a poor memory.” I don't recall that was said about Pence or Clinton.

Both Trump and Biden were accused with "willful retention of classified documents". Bottom line, Trump was charged and Biden was not.

[Ken]

Trump, Biden, and Pence were all treated exactly the same. Absolutely no difference.

The reason Special Counsel Robert Hur gave was for not charging Biden was - “if Biden were charged, the president could present to a jury “as a sympathetic, well-meaning, elderly man with a poor memory.” I don't recall that was said about Pence or Clinton.

Both Trump and Biden were accused with "willful retention of classified documents". Bottom line, Trump was charged and Biden was not.

Wrong.

Trump was charged under the espionage act for retaining and then failing to deliver classified document after they were identified and requested. Something neither Pence nor Biden did. The government was forced to go to court and secure a search warrant to obtain the materials back from Trump. Unlike Pence and Biden who cooperated.

Trump was also charged with obstruction of justice in his attempts to prevent the government from retrieving classified documents. Also something that neither Biden nor Pence did.

Finally, Trump was charged with making false statements associated with his attempts to illegally retain classified documents, again, also something that neither Pence nor Biden did.

Trump isn't being charged for any of the hundreds of documents he took and then subsequently returned when requested, which is the same treatment as Pence and Biden got for doing the same thing.

Actions have consequences, and what Trump did is fundamentally different from what Pence and Biden did.

[Josh]

Biden gave an angry press conference today complaining that the special prosecutor shouldn't have said he is feeble minded and objecting to that. The press then hammered him with questions about it, and he responded angrily to them (not that I blame them; who wants to sit and field questions from people who are questioning if you're feeble minded?)