Bill Barr on Trump

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Valerie
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Re: Bill Barr on Trump

Post by Valerie »

Dan Z wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 1:16 pm
mike wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 9:08 am
Sliceitup wrote: Sun May 07, 2023 1:45 pm

I think the point is that any leader needs to have better thinking processes in order to be a capable leader. I think there’s going to be chaos regardless. But Barr is saying that in the case of Trump that chaos will negatively affect the policy goals that his voters want.
That's what I understood him to be saying, and I think that he is correct in that.
I do as well Mike. However, I'm not convinced the octogenarian Biden will do much better in the complex thinking department...although he seems to be more capable of listening to counsel than his predecessor.

With 300 million people to pick from...couldn't the country come up with a few better choices? I'm less convinced than ever that American Political polity, at least in the era of such a significantly divided government, is capable of producing consistently good candidate choices.
You say Biden is better at listening to counsel, but he has to be. At this stage it is cognitivity he does not seem capable of doing anything without counsel even answering the simplest questions like how many grandchildren he has. If you watch some of these public appearances if he can't answer personal questions such as that how can we trust that he could make any decisions for a nation without being told what to say and do? That's just the reality of it and people knew that before he was elected that he would be used more than we lied on.

There seem to be better choices when Trump ran the first time. However at least Republicans were so concerned that Hillary Clinton could bring another Clinton administration into existence to run this country that Trump won because he had proven his ability and also gave confidence to his party he had switched to, that he could defeat hillary. At the time there were others that were highly respected but the concern was they could not defeat Hillary. Also his campaign promises to appoint conservative supreme Court justices to the bench when opening came, was something very important to conservatives who wish to see roe v Wade overturned. The fact that that campaign promise was fulfilled gave him the credibility that many were looking for. He was the first president and only president to walk in the pro-life March.

I was surprised in 2015 how many people I highly respected both in their face and wisdom were going to support Trump in the 2016 election. They had to set his personal life aside in this and that's fair because the personal life of many of our presidents were not free of sin. The question was who is better equipped to run the country and be a presence in the world.

This time around Trump has a couple of things going for him and that he gained the confidence while he was president that he would do just what he said he would do. He was not all talk. He was not concerned about catering to the needy that want to take advantage of the system. There is still a large population that believe the election was stolen from him no matter what is said. So many want to see him finish what he started. Not only that a lot of people are hurting financially and can compare that to how much better they were doing while Trump was in office.

If he had been allowed to do his job without the torment and bashing from day one, the writing and women's marches and terrible threats, we would not have experienced the lashing out. They're probably wouldn't have been the mean tweets, but I have seen signs and t-shirts that say I will take mean tweets any day over what we have now.

There maybe better candidates but they will have to prove that they can defeat the other party otherwise we will fall back on that dependence on someone who can win the battle
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Grace
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Re: Bill Barr on Trump

Post by Grace »

Dan Z wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 1:16 pm

I do as well Mike. However, I'm not convinced the octogenarian Biden will do much better in the complex thinking department...although he seems to be more capable of listening to counsel than his predecessor.

With 300 million people to pick from...couldn't the country come up with a few better choices? I'm less convinced than ever that American Political polity, at least in the era of such a significantly divided government, is capable of producing consistently good candidate choices.
Biden might be more capable of listening to counsel, than Trump. But who is he listening to? It seems like the people he is listening to are out of touch with the real world. Tonight he will meet with Speaker McCarthy to discuss the debt limit. The meeting will end a three-month stall in negotiations.

Yesterday's press briefing KJP made an argument saying about increasing the debt ceiling., "let's look at it through the American families’ eyes for a second. If you buy a car, you are expected to pay the monthly payments, If you buy a home, you are to pay the mortgage every month. That is the expectation. That is the spending that you put forth or spending that you may have done before. And now you're paying every month. If you do not pay your car payment, if you do not pay your mortgage payment, then your credit is going to be bad. It's going to hurt your credit.". ,( except of course when it comes to the student loans this administration wants to forgive). For once what she was saying wasn't a lie, but was true.

But her statement negates the fact that when you overspend, at some point you got to stop spending. And if you are in debt and you have problems paying, you don't take on more debt, like this administration wants to do. Yet Biden, his counsel and KJP lack the common sense to figure that out. And that is what Biden's counsel must be telling him, (As I don't think he has the mental acuity to figure anything out on his own).

Bill Barr might think another Trump presidency will be chaotic. But his past presidency was mild in comparison to what we have now. As Robert said:
Border chaos, Ukraine chaos, Taiwan chaos, Oil chaos, Hunter chaos, Inflation chaos,
Now add to that the debt limit chaos and Biden asking for a blank check for government spending.
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Ernie
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Re: Bill Barr on Trump

Post by Ernie »

Grace wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 9:51 amBill Barr might think another Trump presidency will be chaotic. But his past presidency was mild in comparison to what we have now. As Robert said:
Border chaos, Ukraine chaos, Taiwan chaos, Oil chaos, Hunter chaos, Inflation chaos,
Now add to that the debt limit chaos and Biden asking for a blank check for government spending.
The tribalism continues...
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Grace
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Re: Bill Barr on Trump

Post by Grace »

Ernie wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 10:02 am
Grace wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 9:51 amBill Barr might think another Trump presidency will be chaotic. But his past presidency was mild in comparison to what we have now. As Robert said:
Border chaos, Ukraine chaos, Taiwan chaos, Oil chaos, Hunter chaos, Inflation chaos,
Now add to that the debt limit chaos and Biden asking for a blank check for government spending.
The tribalism continues...
Not sure what your point is. Please explain.

The definition of tribalism; "Loyalty to a tribe or other social group especially when combined with strong negative feelings for people outside the group".
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Ernie
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Re: Bill Barr on Trump

Post by Ernie »

Grace wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 10:20 am
Ernie wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 10:02 am
Grace wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 9:51 amBill Barr might think another Trump presidency will be chaotic. But his past presidency was mild in comparison to what we have now. As Robert said:

Now add to that the debt limit chaos and Biden asking for a blank check for government spending.
The tribalism continues...
Not sure what your point is. Please explain.

The definition of tribalism; "Loyalty to a tribe or other social group especially when combined with strong negative feelings for people outside the group".
I think the definition fits exactly.
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Robert
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Re: Bill Barr on Trump

Post by Robert »

Ernie wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 10:02 am
Grace wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 9:51 amBill Barr might think another Trump presidency will be chaotic. But his past presidency was mild in comparison to what we have now. As Robert said:
Border chaos, Ukraine chaos, Taiwan chaos, Oil chaos, Hunter chaos, Inflation chaos,
Now add to that the debt limit chaos and Biden asking for a blank check for government spending.
The tribalism continues...
That is really unfair and insulting. She laid out her side clear and respectfully and this becomes a jab. The thing we are trying to cut down. State your case. Do not jab at someone else.

All government does now is uncontrolled spending. That is a fact. This is not tribalism.
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Grace
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Re: Bill Barr on Trump

Post by Grace »

Ernie wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 10:29 am
Grace wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 10:20 am
Ernie wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 10:02 am
The tribalism continues...
Not sure what your point is. Please explain.

The definition of tribalism; "Loyalty to a tribe or other social group especially when combined with strong negative feelings for people outside the group".
I think the definition fits exactly.
Fits what or who? I think you might be confused or I wasn't clear in my prior post. Tribalism is defined as loyalty to people. Being loyal to honesty, truth, facts and not lies, is NOT being loyal to people, but being loyal to the principle of honesty and facts.
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Dan Z
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Re: Bill Barr on Trump

Post by Dan Z »

Grace wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 9:51 am
...when you overspend, at some point you got to stop spending. And if you are in debt and you have problems paying, you don't take on more debt, like this administration wants to do. Yet Biden, his counsel and KJP lack the common sense to figure that out. And that is what Biden's counsel must be telling him, (As I don't think he has the mental acuity to figure anything out on his own).

Bill Barr might think another Trump presidency will be chaotic. But his past presidency was mild in comparison to what we have now. As Robert said:
Border chaos, Ukraine chaos, Taiwan chaos, Oil chaos, Hunter chaos, Inflation chaos,
Now add to that the debt limit chaos and Biden asking for a blank check for government spending.
I agree with what you said here Grace - "when you overspend, at some point you got to stop spending." The government needs to figure out how to do a better job of living within its means...and that involves serious strategies on both the expenditure and revenue (taxation) sides...a balanced approach that neither hardcore Democrats nor hardcore Republicans seem able to achieve.

What I disagree with, however, is the idea of refusing (or threatening to refuse) to pay for things that have already been committed. If the government defaults, it is like me saying "I have bought this house or car, or I have committed to support my unemployed sister's family, but now I've decided not to pay for it." The time to limit spending is BEFORE you purchase something or make a commitment - not afterward. If I refuse to pay for something I have bought or committed to, I am in essence punishing other people for my poor spending habits. The world's economic system is built on people and governments doing all they can to keep their commitments. In government, the battle for spending needs to take place at the budgeting and legislative level. The ripple effect of a government default would damage US and world economies - and would punish millions.

I don't like the idea - or even that it is being threatened.
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Robert
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Re: Bill Barr on Trump

Post by Robert »

Dan Z wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 12:24 pm The ripple effect of a government default would damage US and world economies - and would punish millions.
Dan, I see the delusion that there is money to keep paying for more stuff to be more damaging. Once the bubble pops, it will be very detrimental. I think it is better to say, "I just can't afford the car anymore. I have to let it go. I know I committed to pay for it, but I can't without crashing the whole house and can not even pay for food."

World systems need to be more honest about what they can afford to do.

We, in the US, have voted our treasury dry. We need to pay the price for it. It should not fall on our children and grandchildren to do it.
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Dan Z
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Re: Bill Barr on Trump

Post by Dan Z »

Robert wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 12:31 pm
Dan Z wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 12:24 pm The ripple effect of a government default would damage US and world economies - and would punish millions.
Dan, I see the delusion that there is money to keep paying for more stuff to be more damaging. Once the bubble pops, it will be very detrimental. I think it is better to say, "I just can't afford the car anymore. I have to let it go. I know I committed to pay for it, but I can't without crashing the whole house and can not even pay for food."

World systems need to be more honest about what they can afford to do.

We, in the US, have voted our treasury dry. We need to pay the price for it. It should not fall on our children and grandchildren to do it.
I understand what you are saying Robert, and I agree with the fiscal responsibility behind the idea...although, in a macro-economic sense, the world's largest economy defaulting on its debt seems to have potentially catastrophic risks attached to it. Risks that could ironically make the debt situation in the US and around the world far worse as the dollar falls, recession occurrs, employment crashes, and government income descends. It seems to me that there are far less reckless ways of trying to address overspending than burning down the economic house we all live in.
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