The problem with liberal-progressive lawmakers

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Josh
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The problem with liberal-progressive lawmakers

Post by Josh »

In 1975, liberal-progressives succeeded in mandating catalytic converters on cars[1], and ever since then, cars have had a relatively expensive catalytic converter attached.

California, in particular, has very stringent laws around catalytic converters. If my cat got stolen off my car, I could replace it with a straight pipe and the state of Ohio would not bother me about it. In California you can't do that.

In 2023, catalytic converter thefts are a serious problem in Los Angeles and in other large cities in America (although, mysteriously, not a problem at all where I live, despite widespread poverty in our cities here). One of the councilwomen in L.A. in the liberal-progressive caucus (it is an entirely Democratic governing body, but has a progressive wing and a more centrist wing) thinks it's Toyota's fault that they're so easy to steal:

Image

The city council is considering[2] passing a law requiring that someone maintain proof of ownership of any loose catalytic converters they have, much like a car title. (I am not necessarily opposed to this kind of law, either.) Yet this is what the liberal-progressive caucus has to say:
Hernandez said the city’s ordinance, which would treat possession of catalytic converters as a misdemeanor, would disproportionately target Black, Latino, Indigenous and low-income residents.

“A criminal conviction and jail time can damage someone’s life forever, leading to collateral consequences like the inability to obtain jobs, rent apartments and get a loan,” she said. “This puts people in a revolving door of desperation and recidivism.”
He went on to want to place more burdens on lawful car owners and drivers, who are already burdened by government regulation requiring them to have a cat in the first place:
Hernandez and Councilmember Hugo Soto-Martinez said a better strategy would be for the city to help residents attach cages or other anti-theft devices to their cars to protect their catalytic converters. Harris-Dawson said the ordinance would cause more Black and Latino drivers to be pulled over and questioned by officers about what’s inside their cars.

Punishing people for possessing unattached catalytic converters “doesn’t help anybody,” he said.

“When somebody gets something stolen, the city should be doing everything we can to make sure they’re made whole — not to punish another person,” Harris-Dawson added.
This is the fundamental problem with the liberal-progressive wing. They first mandate that a person such as myself MUST have a catalytic converter on their car. People like me comply and keep our vehicles in legal order, with working emissions and up-to-date registration and insurance.

We then have to face thieves who want to steal parts off of our cars that make them no longer legal to operate.

Instead of appropriately punishing theft, the liberal-progressive proposes to shift the burden even more on to lawful, law-abiding people. There isn't a need for cages or anti-theft devices. There is a need for thieves to (a) be terrified of the consequences of being caught stealing, and (b) not desire to steal in the first place. To quote the Bible, "Let him who stole steal no more, but rather let him labour."

[1] I am not saying that this is a bad thing. I share the concern for the enviornment that many progressives have.

[2] I believe this bill did pass, 8-4, along the caucus lines of the centrists (8) and progressive caucus (4).
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Ernie
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Re: The problem with liberal-progressive lawmakers

Post by Ernie »

If you want to convince us that you are not politically motivated, you should also start a thread about the problem with conservative-conventional lawmakers.
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temporal1
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Re: The problem with liberal-progressive lawmakers

Post by temporal1 »

Ernie wrote: Tue Apr 25, 2023 11:42 am If you want to convince us that you are not politically motivated, you should also start a thread about the problem with conservative-conventional lawmakers.
and/or, readers could become better at not rushing to presume motivations. which has become increasingly difficult.
the world is now taught to rush to presume (the worst, if at all possible).

i don’t yet have thoughts on the OP.
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Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


”We’re all just walking each other home.”
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temporal1
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Re: The problem with liberal-progressive lawmakers

Post by temporal1 »

.. This is the fundamental problem ..
.. Instead of appropriately punishing theft, the .. [proposal is] .. to shift the burden even more on to lawful, law-abiding people. ..
This is THE ideological shift, THE academic experiment (not labeled such). THE formula. Not just about catalytic converters.

The youthful U.S. is awash in EXPERIMENTS (not honestly labeled experiments) thrown out onto the public to “work out” IRL.
It’s become routine. It’s gotten old.

The U.S. is crushed with massive QUANTITIES of untested, unproven, unwanted human law.
As long as “law makers” are paid to “make law” that’s what they’ll do. They will not stop on their own volition.
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Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


”We’re all just walking each other home.”
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Ken
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Re: The problem with liberal-progressive lawmakers

Post by Ken »

Catalytic converter theft is definitely a bipartisan problem.

Up here conservative lawmakers resist any regulation of junk yards and metal scrap dealerships that buy stolen catalytic converters from the druggies who steal and sell them. Erase the market for stolen catalytic converters and the theft will end overnight. Who is going to sell something that has no value?

And don't feed us your nonsense about how this isn't a problem in Ohio. It took two seconds to discover it is the same in Ohio as every other place:

https://www.news-herald.com/2022/12/27/ ... s-in-2022/

Catalytic converter thefts among biggest Northeast Ohio crime trends in 2022

As 2022 nears conclusion, local police chiefs took a look back at crimes that increased in their community, with catalytic converter thefts being one of the biggest problems of the past year.

According to Madison Township Chief Matthew Byers, in 2022 the biggest crime upswings in his community involved catalytic converter thefts and self-checkout thefts.

Catalytic converters are located within the exhaust system of all gasoline- and diesel-powered motor vehicles. The precious metals contained in the converters make them a popular target for thieves.

“Throughout the past year our officers and detective bureau have spent a great deal of time reporting, investigating and prosecuting catalytic converter thefts,” Byers said. “These crimes are extremely frustrating and costly for the victims. Everyone with a motor vehicle is a potential victim.”
and...
https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/cri ... 324007/Six people have been arrested in connection with the theft of thousands of catalytic converters from Franklin County and other areas in central Ohio, and Groveport police are saying legislative change by Ohio's lawmakers is needed to help address the problem.

Groveport police Chief Casey Adams said a multi-agency investigation led by his department found that as many as 13,000 catalytic converters have been stolen in central Ohio in a 14-month period, causing an estimated $19 million in losses to the community or about $1,500 per converter.
and...
https://www.10tv.com/article/news/local ... e058e8e35b

COLUMBUS, Ohio — A Columbus man was sentenced to at least eight years in prison on Wednesday after pleading guilty to 15 felonies in connection with a string of catalytic converter thefts.

Tommy Cox, 42, was given the sentence of eight to 12 years in the Franklin County Court of Common Pleas. If he does not make parole after eight years, he would have to serve an additional four years.

Cox was arrested in March 2022 and charged with 32 felony counts connected to the theft ring that stretched multiple counties. Law enforcement made the arrest following a nine-month investigation.

Police say the crimes stretched from Franklin, Fairfield, Licking, Muskingum and Morrow counties.
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Josh
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Re: The problem with liberal-progressive lawmakers

Post by Josh »

Ken wrote: Tue Apr 25, 2023 1:30 pm Catalytic converter theft is definitely a bipartisan problem.

Up here conservative lawmakers resist any regulation of junk yards and metal scrap dealerships that buy stolen catalytic converters from the druggies who steal and sell them. Erase the market for stolen catalytic converters and the theft will end overnight. Who is going to sell something that has no value?
Well, here in Ohio significant legislation and regulation has been put into place to put a stop to this, including police sting operations. (One local police department walked into a scrap metal dealer and said he had a lot of cats for sale, and that some might be stolen. It was true - the police dept. took some stolen cats from evidence. The scrap metal dealer said that's fine and offered cash, and then he was arrested and his business shut down.)
And don't feed us your nonsense about how this isn't a problem in Ohio. It took two seconds to discover it is the same in Ohio as every other place.
I had the cat stolen off my vehicle from the parking lot of a train station. Solution: Don't take public transit. Avoid public transit.
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Josh
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Re: The problem with liberal-progressive lawmakers

Post by Josh »

temporal1 wrote: Tue Apr 25, 2023 1:07 pm
.. This is the fundamental problem ..
.. Instead of appropriately punishing theft, the .. [proposal is] .. to shift the burden even more on to lawful, law-abiding people. ..
This is THE ideological shift, THE academic experiment (not labeled such). THE formula. Not just about catalytic converters.

The youthful U.S. is awash in EXPERIMENTS (not honestly labeled experiments) thrown out onto the public to “work out” IRL.
It’s become routine. It’s gotten old.

The U.S. is crushed with massive QUANTITIES of untested, unproven, unwanted human law.
As long as “law makers” are paid to “make law” that’s what they’ll do. They will not stop on their own volition.
This was the exact point of my post, t1. You get a gold star for strong reading comprehension.

Notice that I did not criticise the mainstream Democratic lawmakers. The problem is the progressive wing, who want to (a) burden lawful citizens, and (b) refuse to punish unlawful criminals.
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Josh
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Re: The problem with liberal-progressive lawmakers

Post by Josh »

Ernie wrote: Tue Apr 25, 2023 11:42 am If you want to convince us that you are not politically motivated, you should also start a thread about the problem with conservative-conventional lawmakers.
I'm not politically motivated. There are plenty of problems with conservative-conventional lawmakers, but we also have plenty of full-time criticisers of them here on MN and in other places.

My particular criticism is not even partisan. This was a dispute entirely within the Democratic party.
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Ernie
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Re: The problem with liberal-progressive lawmakers

Post by Ernie »

Josh wrote: Tue Apr 25, 2023 3:06 pmI'm not politically motivated.
If someone says something often enough and loud enough, eventually some people will believe them.

An elder minister from the church I grew up in, often said this in my hearing as a boy,
"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and fool all of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all the people all the time."
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Re: The problem with liberal-progressive lawmakers

Post by Ken »

Ernie wrote: Tue Apr 25, 2023 5:08 pm
Josh wrote: Tue Apr 25, 2023 3:06 pmI'm not politically motivated.
If someone says something often enough and loud enough, eventually some people will believe them.

An elder minister from the church I grew up in, often said this in my hearing as a boy,
"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and fool all of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all the people all the time."
So here we have Josh doing the following:

1. Identifying a problem that is NATIONAL in scope. There is no part of the US that does not experience catalytic converter theft.
2. Zooming in on one particular vote over a theft mitigation measure in one particular county in California.
3. Focusing on the comments of one particular councilwoman who was on the LOSING side of that vote.

And then using that to start a thread about the "problem with liberal-progressive lawmakers" here on an international forum where I suspect not one single person even lives in LA County.

It is ridiculous frankly. One could peruse the news and find all manner of outrageous comments made by right-wing conservative politicians who are on the losing end of various votes and create endless threads here titled "the problem with right-wing conservative lawmakers." We could pick any number of right-wing conservative lawmakers like Margorie Taylor Green or Ted Cruz or Jim Jordan and generate hundreds of threads titled "the problem with right-wing conservative lawmakers" and quote dumb things they have said. What would be the point other than to try to score cheap political points? Which is all this thread is about.
Josh wrote: Tue Apr 25, 2023 3:06 pmI'm not politically motivated.
RIIIIIIIGHT.
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