The problem with liberal-progressive lawmakers

[Josh]

So here we have Josh doing the following:

1. Identifying a problem that is NATIONAL in scope. There is no part of the US that does not experience catalytic converter theft.

What is not NATIONAL in scope is lawmakers saying we shouldn't punish catalytic converter thefts at all.

2. Zooming in on one particular vote over a theft mitigation measure in one particular county in California.
3. Focusing on the comments of one particular councilwoman who was on the LOSING side of that vote.

And then using that to start a thread about the "problem with liberal-progressive lawmakers" here on an international forum where I suspect not one single person even lives in LA County.

Yes, Ken, this is a serious problem, because lawmakers simply didn't used to talk like enforcing laws against theft is somehow a bad thing. Yet it is becoming commonplace in places like Chicago, L.A., Portland, and S.F. and it did not used to be.

This is certainly worthy of discussion and it's not even a partisan issue. Everyone involved are of the same political party. The problem is that there actually are people right now who think that the fault lies with:

- Toyota for not somehow armouring their cars against someone who has an angle grinder
- Owners of cars with catalytic converters
- But not with the person actually DOING THE STEALING.

It is ridiculous frankly. One could peruse the news and find all manner of outrageous comments made by right-wing conservative politicians who are on the losing end of various votes and create endless threads here titled "the problem with right-wing conservative lawmakers." We could pick any number of right-wing conservative lawmakers like Margorie Taylor Green or Ted Cruz or Jim Jordan and generate hundreds of threads titled "the problem with right-wing conservative lawmakers" and quote dumb things they have said. What would be the point other than to try to score cheap political points? Which is all this thread is about.

Feel free to start or continue existing threads complaining about right-wing conservative lawmakers. Nobody is stopping you.

[Josh]

An elder minister from the church I grew up in, often said this in my hearing as a boy,
"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and fool all of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all the people all the time."

Perhaps he heard it first from Abraham Lincoln.

You are welcome to decide that I'm political or partisan. That doesn't change the fact that I am not. It is neither political nor partisan to point out when a lawmaker says it's wrong to prosecute thefts. The Bible is pretty clear that theft is wrong, and that the government has a role in enforcing and preventing theft.

[Sliceitup]

Doesn’t it become exponentially more difficult to steal cats when the vehicle is low to the ground? How are people taking them off of a Prius? Do they take their jacks along?

My brother had someone try to take his but they must have gotten spooked because they abandoned it before taking it off.

[Valerie]

If you want to convince us that you are not politically motivated, you should also start a thread about the problem with conservative-conventional lawmakers.

What is the problem with them Ernie? Perhaps what Josh is pointing out is the reason California's are leaving california. People are so sick of criminals getting away with things. And it's spreading to other states we have much more stuff now because it's constantly on the news how these certain states are so soft on crime. In California they won't even prosecute you if you steal under a thousand dollars. My family liberal or conservative is sick to death of these policies because it hurts everyone. I hear it all the time from customers they just shake their heads. No one can understand why people are getting away with so much. The Bible says because lawlessness will abound the love of many will grow cold. Did anyone here has a problem with not seeing how harmful this is then you're not reading your Bible

[Ken]

Doesn’t it become exponentially more difficult to steal cats when the vehicle is low to the ground? How are people taking them off of a Prius? Do they take their jacks along?

My brother had someone try to take his but they must have gotten spooked because they abandoned it before taking it off.

Yes, you can't get under a Prius (I have one) You would need to jack it up.

There is no car that really has a theft-proof catalytic converter that I'm aware of. It is part of the exhaust system so has to be outside the car underneath, and they don't unscrew them, just just use high-powered cordless sawzalls with metal cutting blades to just cut the whole thing out in a minute or two.

You can buy various after-market stainless steel cages to bolt over them but they are only really going to slow a thief down or just cause them to go to the next car.

The problem with Priuses is that Toyota very stupidly built a coolant heat exchanger into the catalytic converter. So there are coolant hoses running in and out of it and the whole thing is very proprietary. No aftermarket solutions exist. So you have to get a very expensive replacement from Toyota and the whole replacement is a bigger hassle than with a regular car. There was a time last Spring during the Pandemic when Toyota was back ordered on catalytic converters all the way back to Japan and there were none to be had anywhere in the US. The problem wasn't that they were getting stolen (although some were) but that the heat exchanger was failing on a lot of cars and so you got coolant into the exhaust producing giant clouds of white smoke like a blown head gasket and the car was undrivable. Ask me how I know this. I had to rig up a coolant bypass to get the car running again which no mechanic would do for me since it was not a factory authorized repair. Last hybrid car I will ever buy.

[Ken]

In 1975, liberal-progressives succeeded in mandating catalytic converters on cars[1], and ever since then, cars have had a relatively expensive catalytic converter attached.

Just some actual correcting of your history here.

The catalytic converter national mandate was passed as part of the Clean Air Act of 1970 which was signed into law by...[checks notes] noted "liberal-progressive" Richard Nixon. The deadline for the auto industry to comply with the new law was 1975.

Yes, it was pushed by California which had some of the nations worst smog at that time. In 1970 the State of California was under the leadership of noted "liberal-progressive" governor Ronald Reagan. At that time, both houses of the California legislature were also under Republican control. It was a red state. Which voted for Nixon both times in 1968 and 1972 as well as Ford in 1976.

California then and now.

[Josh]

Ken,

Did you read my footnote?

[1] I am not saying that this is a bad thing. I share the concern for the enviornment that many progressives have.

My concern is that lawful motorists be able to keep their cat attached to their car. The result of widespread cat theft is you end up with tons of cars spewing smog.

[Ken]

Ken,

Did you read my footnote?

[1] I am not saying that this is a bad thing. I share the concern for the enviornment that many progressives have.

My concern is that lawful motorists be able to keep their cat attached to their car. The result of widespread cat theft is you end up with tons of cars spewing smog.

I am correcting your assertion that it was "liberal-progressive lawmakers" that foisted the catalytic converter requirement on the public in 1975. That is not true. It was a bipartisan effort in 1970 supported by many notable Republicans like Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan.

[Josh]

Ken,

Did you read my footnote?

[1] I am not saying that this is a bad thing. I share the concern for the enviornment that many progressives have.

My concern is that lawful motorists be able to keep their cat attached to their car. The result of widespread cat theft is you end up with tons of cars spewing smog.

I am correcting your assertion that it was "liberal-progressive lawmakers" that foisted the catalytic converter requirement on the public in 1975. That is not true. It was a bipartisan effort in 1970 supported by many notable Republicans like Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan.

Yes, there was a lot more unity and compromise back then than we have now. It was a lot nicer when progressives agitated for clean air as opposed to trying to dictate that we all promote crossdressing and legalise theft.

[RZehr]

It would be nice to return to those old ways. But this country never will in my lifetime.