Future of US elections

[Ernie]

Ever since the 2020 elections and riot on January 6, I think the US is on a fast track to have election senarios similar to those of 2nd and 3rd world countries in the future. Change my mind.

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/03/1 ... p-00087495

[HondurasKeiser]

Election 2022.

[Josh]

Politico is a notoriously left wing biased source, but yes, the fact they choose to keep saying stuff like this is evidence of how partisan America is becoming.

[Ernie]

Politico is a notoriously left wing biased source, but yes, the fact they choose to keep saying stuff like this is evidence of how partisan America is becoming.

Are you only able to dialogue on topics that link to middle or right sources?


These sources are considered "middle" by FreeSpoke. Are you able to dialogue using these sources?

https://www.newsbreak.com/alaska-state/ ... able-soros

https://www.kob.com/politics-news/state ... s-opt-out/


And these are considered "right" by FreeSpoke. Are you able to dialogue using these sources?
https://thefederalist.com/2023/03/15/de ... op-states/

https://yellowhammernews.com/other-stat ... from-eric/

[Ken]

Politico is a notoriously left wing biased source, but yes, the fact they choose to keep saying stuff like this is evidence of how partisan America is becoming.

Once again you take to exaggeration and hyperbole. Political is barely even left leaning, and earns that rating primarily due to the subjects it covers, not because of any inherent bias or inaccuracy in its reporting.

[Josh]

There are actually points of view besides “left” and “right”. I categorically reject narratives which simply exist to promote the left wing, the GOP establishment, or what I like to call “right wing clickbait”. There is basically zero value in discussing obvious propaganda.

[PetrChelcicky]

Ever since the 2020 elections and riot on January 6, I think the US is on a fast track to have election senarios similar to those of 2nd and 3rd world countries in the future. Change my mind

Well, this is simply a consequence from the United States having no reasonable system to treat questions of electoral fraud (one of the most normal matters in politics).
As I understand, a new president or whoever must be installed until a certain day which means that people don't take the time for a calm checking but become frenzical either by hastily affirming or by hastily denying that the election was correct.
Here in Germany, a Berlin election was checked over a period of two years and in the end was found insufficient which meant that it had to be repeated. Under such conditions we don't have scenarios similar to those of 2nd ot 3rd world countries. Under the same conditions the United States would not have them either.
In Germany, riots would be completely useless, because this only means that the installment of the president or whoever will be delayed or shifted to another place, nothing else. Which is why we (well, most of us) don't treat trespassers as "insurrectors", hysterically.
The point is not that we Germans are better humans but that we have the better institutional framework, and Americans could have that just as well.
(A Gentleman's agreement could have been that Biden was installed but agreed to avoid any controversial decisions until the correctness of the election was sufficiently verified.)

[Ken]

Well, this is simply a consequence from the United States having no reasonable system to treat questions of electoral fraud (one of the most normal matters in politics).
As I understand, a new president or whoever must be installed until a certain day which means that people don't take the time for a calm checking but become frenzical either by hastily affirming or by hastily denying that the election was correct.
Here in Germany, a Berlin election was checked over a period of two years and in the end was found insufficient which meant that it had to be repeated. Under such conditions we don't have scenarios similar to those of 2nd ot 3rd world countries. Under the same conditions the United States would not have them either.
In Germany, riots would be completely useless, because this only means that the installment of the president or whoever will be delayed or shifted to another place, nothing else. Which is why we (well, most of us) don't treat trespassers as "insurrectors", hysterically.
The point is not that we Germans are better humans but that we have the better institutional framework, and Americans could have that just as well.
(A Gentleman's agreement could have been that Biden was installed but agreed to avoid any controversial decisions until the correctness of the election was sufficiently verified.)

This is complete nonsense.

Every statue and jurisdiction in the country has well-developed procedures and processes for challenging elections and conducting recounts. This all happened in 2020 and Trump simply lost EVERY single electoral challenge alleging fraud and he also lost every single recount. Trump and his campaign made a blizzard of wild allegations of election fraud but were unable to sustain or prove a SINGLE ONE in court. NOT ONE. They filed a total of 63 separate lawsuits and lost every single one. They were all dismissed or lost because they were baseless, not because there was a time crunch. Which tells us they were lying about all of it. And subsequent information has come out that shows they KNEW they were lying.

Every single claim of fraud that the Trump campaign brought forward into court was found to be baseless. And every single recount from Georgia to Arizona confirmed the original results. And no credible information has emerged in the two years since to question any state's results, much less the electoral college result that was not even particularly close.

We don't need two years to recount election results. No country does. In Georgia they conducted a machine recount on November 11, one week after the election. And they conducted a second hand-recount on December 2 with the results announced on December 7. And it was the Republican Secretary of State who oversaw the whole process. Even with two complete recounts there was still plenty of time for Georgia to certify its results. Just as there was in every other state. There was no rush or setting aside of any procedures out of haste as you suggest.

And you are also wrong about the process. Under the Constitution, in the event that there is no certifiable election result, the decision falls to the House of Representatives to pick the president.

What we don't have is any legal way to extend a president's term of office absent an election. Trump ceased to be president on January 20, 2021 when his 4-year term expired. There is no legal process to extend any president's term. If January 20 comes and goes without a certified electoral college result then it is up to the House of Representative to select the next president who will serve until the next election. This happened in both 1800 and 1824.

Germany has a superior system? Tell us the total number of German citizens who actually cast a vote for your current chancellor Olaf Scholz. Out of your total national electorate, how many people voted for Scholz?

[Bootstrap]

Ever since the 2020 elections and riot on January 6, I think the US is on a fast track to have election scenarios similar to those of 2nd and 3rd world countries in the future. Change my mind.

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/03/1 ... p-00087495

I agree with you.

I think the root problem is simple: election boards, election volunteers, courts, ERIC, recounts, and basically all mechanisms set up to monitor elections are under attack. Precisely because they told the truth and got it right.

America is capable of conducting free and fair elections, and we have ways to check and double check the result if there's any doubt. We should be grateful for that. It's been a real source of stability. Some countries don't have that.

[Josh]

America is capable of conducting free and fair elections ... Some countries don't have that.

Your belief in American exceptionalism is noted.