Biden's New Border Policy

[GaryK]

I interact with a wide variety of people every week. Some are Christians. Some are not. Some are searching and seeking.

My goal in all of my interactions is to help...
-hardened atheists become civil atheists
-civil atheists become agnostics
-agnostics become ietsists
-ietsists become theists
-theists become monotheists
-monotheists become believers in the God of the Bible
-believers in the God of the Bible to become believers in Jesus
-believers in Jesus become followers of Jesus
-followers of Jesus become better followers of Jesus.

From my perspective, helping people move from one level to the next is progress. Sometimes the progression happens very fast. Other times the changes happen incrementally.

Anything a person learns along the way that is based on the character of God is one less thing he will need to learn once he becomes a followers of Jesus. So the more he/she learns now, the better. And the better his village, town, region will be as a result of his goodness.

I agree with JBG that to whatever degree civil leaders adapt their methods and worldview to match the heart and character of God, the better this world will be.

One man I interact with currently plans to run for president in his country some day.(Rwanda) He has the connections and charisma to win. In the last few years he has distanced himself from Islam, but he is not yet ready to accept the God of the Bible as the only God. He has been learning about what makes communities flourish and how some communities resort to barbarianism.
I consider all of this progress as long as he is putting off falsehood and embracing truth.

I would be interested in hearing an example from you and/or JBG of the world becoming a better place as a result of political leaders adopting methods and worldviews that match the heart and character of God. I thought that is what the Moral Majority advocated for in the 80s. I'm not convinced it resulted in the US becoming a better place.

[Ernie]

I would be interested in hearing an example from you and/or JBG of the world becoming a better place as a result of political leaders adopting methods and worldviews that match the heart and character of God. I thought that is what the Moral Majority advocated for in the 80s. I'm not convinced it resulted in the US becoming a better place.

I don't know that forced morality in the name of Christianity has done much good. Likely it did more harm. But when politicians lead the way by example and encouragement, then I think it results in much good.

[Josh]

I don’t think there is much good to be had apart from the Holy Spirit and giving one’s life to Christ. This is one of the core disagreements the Fundamentalists and Old Orders had with the Modernists.

[joshuabgood]

Consider Gamaliel.

[GaryK]

Consider Gamaliel.

I'm not sure I would consider Gamaliel a political leader.

[joshuabgood]

Consider Gamaliel.

I'm not sure I would consider Gamaliel a political leader.

You don't think the Sanhedrin had political power

[GaryK]

Consider Gamaliel.

I'm not sure I would consider Gamaliel a political leader.

You don't think the Sanhedrin had political power

I would consider Gamaliel to be a religious leader. I believe the Jews were under the Roman government in his time.

[barnhart]

I would be interested in hearing an example from you and/or JBG of the world becoming a better place as a result of political leaders adopting methods and worldviews that match the heart and character of God. I thought that is what the Moral Majority advocated for in the 80s. I'm not convinced it resulted in the US becoming a better place.

This may not fit as the example you are looking for, but apostle Paul was quite eager to preach the Kingship of Jesus to government, as high level as possible, all the way to Caesar. And the Kingship he preached was not a watered down platonic gospel where Jesus is king only in the spirit world, but a real actual rightful ruler of all things. He even borrowed language from the Caesar's propaganda to describe Jesus.

[GaryK]

I would be interested in hearing an example from you and/or JBG of the world becoming a better place as a result of political leaders adopting methods and worldviews that match the heart and character of God. I thought that is what the Moral Majority advocated for in the 80s. I'm not convinced it resulted in the US becoming a better place.

This may not fit as the example you are looking for, but apostle Paul was quite eager to preach the Kingship of Jesus to government, as high level as possible, all the way to Caesar. And the Kingship he preached was not a watered down platonic gospel where Jesus is king only in the spirit world, but a real actual rightful ruler of all things. He even borrowed language from the Caesar's propaganda to describe Jesus.

I believe I would do the same if I had the opportunity to meet with politicians.

Some things I'm questioning...Do we see Paul, in his preaching of the Kingship of Jesus, advocating for Caesar's government to become more like the government of Jesus' Kingdom? Do we have examples of the preaching of the Kingship of Jesus to earthly governmental leaders ever changing the structures and policies of earthly governments and as a result, the world becoming a better place? If the answer is no, does that indicate anything about what we should and should not be advocating for when preaching the Kingship of Jesus to anyone, including politicians?

[Josh]

Augustine personally witnessed to Constantine and eventually converted him.

Constantine tried to make Jesus king of the Roman Empire.

Was that a good thing?