Respect for Marriage Act

[Grace]

That is because no one on this forum really disagrees that envy is sinful. Discussion happens where there is disagreement. In society too, no churches are being split because some want to condone envy. No denominations are promoting envy, and saying we should accept and promote and celebrate diversity of this matter.
And there is no group, or as Temp might put it, organized political blocs, who are wholly devoted to the promotion of envy, and who are demanding that Christians change their 2,000 year old teachings that envy is sinful in favor of the absolute opposite.

Interesting example. You could replace "envy" with any sin.

[Robert]

The reason why LGBT want to be able to marry is envy. They are envious of heterosexual relationships and want what we have. If not, why not just create something new they can call partnerage. Get the government to recognize it and we are all happy.

Nope. They are envious that marriage is available to "sis" people and not themselves. They convince others that it is unfair that they can not enjoy what we have, when what we have it totally tied up into opposite sexes creating families.

Historically, marriage was not about the couple. Arranged marriages were dominate in history. The couple did not even get to choose who they married. They married for security. The man got security that the offspring was his. The woman got security that she would have a provider as she raised the offspring.

Thanks to birth control, marriage has devolved to about the couple. It is no longer about the family for many. I do not agree with arranged marriages and think it is a good system that the two find partners they care about, but marriage is really about the security of the family. Even barren families can adopt and raise children in a stable environment. Childless families still produce security and stability, but are no longer understood for this. Even heterosexual marriages have devolved to be about the happiness of the couple. When one is no longer happy, they leave. I guess why care about what happens to the institution of marriage when we don't care anymore. Men are no longer providing security and stability. Many men do not feel that needed in their household. Many women work and bring home good wages while men have their addictions and play with toys. We have degraded the roles of the family so much that it really is not that important anymore.

Respect for marriage is really an oxymoron with this bill.

[Josh]

Because the New Testament teaches that homosexuality is against God’s righteous decree, and those that do such things deserve to die, and also those who encourage and promote such things. The Bible says we cannot promote homosexuality.

i'm conflicted about this statement.
not the part that says homosexuality is against God's righteous decree.

but the rest of that statement that seems to indicate that people deserve to die. and that we are free to hate and maybe even do the killing.

I was quoting Romans 1:

In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

…

Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

i keep thinking about the woman taken in adultery. the big shots said she deserved to die. that was the worst sin that a woman could do, back in those days.
and did Jesus agree? did He tell these people to put her to death?
NO, he showed mercy.

and maybe the reason i'm so conflicted, is if i change out homosexuality to pedophilia, i tend to feel the same way. those folks can't ever be trusted, and they deserve to die. they deserve to be cast out, and to lose their family and church and support base.
but they are still PEOPLE.

and so i don't know the answer to much of anything. maybe you all can help me.

As Christians, we don’t need to conduct executions. However, the Bible does teach that the wages of sin is death. In the case of homosexuality, this happens via nature - people die of AIDS from engaging in sin.

[nett]

I still find it astonishing and within my extended family I have seen whole families break apart over that topic. Not even because someone in the family was LGBT. But simply because someone in the family chose to attend a church that welcomed LGBT members. I have a cousin who is completely ostracized by her family because she and her husband choose to attend an LGBT friendly church. I can't reconcile that level of hate to anything resembling Christianity.

How do you see this as hate? You need to actually read the bible and see what it's saying, instead of proof-texting whatever fits your current narrative.

I've highlighted some of the more hateful verses in Corinthians 5 to help you see how your family breaking apart actually does reflect true christianity. A church that welcomes LGBT members (called a brother) is apostate, and the bible calls for strict shunning in such a case.

1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.

2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.

3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,

4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,

5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?

7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:

10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.

11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

[nett]

The reason why LGBT want to be able to marry is envy. They are envious of heterosexual relationships and want what we have. If not, why not just create something new they can call partnerage. Get the government to recognize it and we are all happy.

Nope. They are envious that marriage is available to "sis" people and not themselves. They convince others that it is unfair that they can not enjoy what we have, when what we have it totally tied up into opposite sexes creating families.

Historically, marriage was not about the couple. Arranged marriages were dominate in history. The couple did not even get to choose who they married. They married for security. The man got security that the offspring was his. The woman got security that she would have a provider as she raised the offspring.

Thanks to birth control, marriage has devolved to about the couple. It is no longer about the family for many. I do not agree with arranged marriages and think it is a good system that the two find partners they care about, but marriage is really about the security of the family. Even barren families can adopt and raise children in a stable environment. Childless families still produce security and stability, but are no longer understood for this. Even heterosexual marriages have devolved to be about the happiness of the couple. When one is no longer happy, they leave. I guess why care about what happens to the institution of marriage when we don't care anymore. Men are no longer providing security and stability. Many men do not feel that needed in their household. Many women work and bring home good wages while men have their addictions and play with toys. We have degraded the roles of the family so much that it really is not that important anymore.

Respect for marriage is really an oxymoron with this bill.

Yes. sadly, they will never be able to convince themselves that it's ok, because they know they cannot actually ever be married in true natural meaning of the word.

[Szdfan]

The reason why LGBT want to be able to marry is envy. They are envious of heterosexual relationships and want what we have. If not, why not just create something new they can call partnerage. Get the government to recognize it and we are all happy.

Nope. They are envious that marriage is available to "sis" people and not themselves. They convince others that it is unfair that they can not enjoy what we have, when what we have it totally tied up into opposite sexes creating families.

This almost sounds like marriage is a limited resource and if more people have marriage you end up with less marriage in your life. I don't think that's true.

[Robert]

This almost sounds like marriage is a limited resource and if more people have marriage you end up with less marriage in your life. I don't think that's true.

I don't think that is true either, but I think we have lost the real purpose for marriage and lost the understanding that it is not all about "I" and "I want."

[Ken]

This almost sounds like marriage is a limited resource and if more people have marriage you end up with less marriage in your life. I don't think that's true.

I don't think that is true either, but I think we have lost the real purpose for marriage and lost the understanding that it is not all about "I" and "I want."

In 1 Corinthians 7:8-9 Paul writes:

• To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is good for them to remain single, as I am. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

What do you think he meant by that?

[RZehr]

This almost sounds like marriage is a limited resource and if more people have marriage you end up with less marriage in your life. I don't think that's true.

I don't think that is true either, but I think we have lost the real purpose for marriage and lost the understanding that it is not all about "I" and "I want."

In 1 Corinthians 7:8-9 Paul writes:

• To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is good for them to remain single, as I am. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

What do you think he meant by that?

Paul intended for the unmarried men to marry women and unmarried women to marry men. Heterosexual marriages.

[Ken]

I don't think that is true either, but I think we have lost the real purpose for marriage and lost the understanding that it is not all about "I" and "I want."

In 1 Corinthians 7:8-9 Paul writes:

• To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is good for them to remain single, as I am. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

What do you think he meant by that?

Paul intended for the unmarried men to marry women and unmarried women to marry men. Heterosexual marriages.

Actually Paul is saying that it is better to NOT get married. But if people lack self control and burn with passion then it is OK.

Do you think gay people never burn with passion and have better self-control than straight people?