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mennobiker wrote:Kind of curious why we call the armed police. Are we not condemning those individuals to hell when we ask them to bring their weapons to be used on our behalf?

I've never asked a cop to bring a weapon on my behalf. I do not think it is wrong or immoral to speak truth to others, including police officers. It is up to them what they do with the information.

mennobiker wrote:Kind of curious why we call the armed police. Are we not condemning those individuals to hell when we ask them to bring their weapons to be used on our behalf?

The criminal has offended Caesar's law. It is the ruler's duty to bear the sword to punish evil. Her bears not his sword in vain.

J.M.

Judas Maccabeus wrote:

mennobiker wrote:Kind of curious why we call the armed police. Are we not condemning those individuals to hell when we ask them to bring their weapons to be used on our behalf?

The criminal has offended Caesar's law. It is the ruler's duty to bear the sword to punish evil. Her bears not his sword in vain.

J.M.

That is true, but I admit I don't see how it addresses mennobiker's question.

Might this question highlight a difference between "happy dualists" and "sad dualists?"
Perhaps Dan Z or someone else could re-post those definitions, lost with the extinct forum.

mennobiker wrote:Kind of curious why we call the armed police. Are we not condemning those individuals to hell when we ask them to bring their weapons to be used on our behalf?

Imo, no since I believe a Christian police officer if required to kill under the laws that God has established is not guilty of murder. Not all killing is murder, imo. A Christian has alternative areas to promote the peace and can avoid roles to never kill anyone, if that suits their conscience best.

Sudsy wrote:

mennobiker wrote:Kind of curious why we call the armed police. Are we not condemning those individuals to hell when we ask them to bring their weapons to be used on our behalf?

Imo, no since I believe a Christian police officer if required to kill under the laws that God has established is not guilty of murder. Not all killing is murder, imo. A Christian has alternative areas to promote the peace and can avoid roles to never kill anyone, if that suits their conscience best.

Do you not believe in non-resistance? Are you a "just war" kind of guy?

As for the original poster, I've met people that would feel that way but have considered it with care and have realized that they would be aiding a criminal by not calling police even if they didn't want to press charges. Thus they sometimes wait a little while before calling the police to properly report the crime without trying to catch the crook in the act. I most assuredly would not want them to kill the criminal threatening me, but I feel like to call for help is not un-biblical. That being said, you could argue that if we are not willing, why should we call them? Maybe I should spend more time thinking about it, but its not been an issue yet

As Christians we should speak truth. As Christians we should not aid and avert criminals and try to cover up their evil deeds.

There is no biblical doctrine against reporting common crime through normal law enforcement channels - none.

mennobiker wrote:Kind of curious why we call the armed police. Are we not condemning those individuals to hell when we ask them to bring their weapons to be used on our behalf?

I think it is quite a jump from calling the police, to condemning them to hell.
There is my decision to call the police. The criminals decision to provoke the police. The polices decision to kill the person. Gods decision to condemn them to hell.
My calling the police does not mean that they will even use deadly force - I've seen people behave because of the presence of the police.

RZehr wrote:

mennobiker wrote:Kind of curious why we call the armed police. Are we not condemning those individuals to hell when we ask them to bring their weapons to be used on our behalf?

I think it is quite a jump from calling the police, to condemning them to hell.
There is my decision to call the police. The criminals decision to provoke the police. The polices decision to kill the person. Gods decision to condemn them to hell.
My calling the police does not mean that they will even use deadly force - I've seen people behave because of the presence of the police.

Indeed. When the properly ordained law enforcement arrives, an evildoer (or an innocent, falsely accused party) has a choice to submit to the lawful authorities and plead his case in court. In the event he is wrongly accused and imprisoned, he can follow the example of Paul & Silas who sang hymns in jail.

Alternatively, they can continue to live by the sword - and those who live by the sword will die by the sword. In our country, the law & courts are pretty fair, executions are very rare, and the police rarely ever kill anybody and we don't have widespread problem with corruption and bribes.

Josh wrote:... and the police rarely ever kill anybody and we don't have widespread problem with corruption and bribes.

957 in the US last year. Here's a link to the running count for this year in the US: http://killedbypolice.net/

If there is a mentally ill or non-white person person present, one should be very hesitant to call police even if you have not decided against calling on armed force as a general principle.

JimFoxvog wrote:

Josh wrote:... and the police rarely ever kill anybody and we don't have widespread problem with corruption and bribes.

957 in the US last year. Here's a link to the running count for this year in the US: http://killedbypolice.net/

If there is a mentally ill or non-white person person present, one should be very hesitant to call police even if you have not decided against calling on armed force as a general principle.

Okay, so let's say you're at a bank and a bank robbery happens. Since I don't live in an all-white, all-sane society, a person of colour (perhaps a bank employee, perhaps a customer) might be present, and who knows, maybe someone present has a mental illness.

Are you saying we should hesitate before notifying the authorities? Should the bank employees hestitate before pressing the button?

Your position essentially seems to be that people of colour or people with any kind of mental illness should never, ever call the police at all. So, in essence, you're saying that evil people should be allowed to use any kind of force or violence against them they want.

That really makes no sense at all.