Alabama Church asks permission to have Police Force

Events occurring and how they relate/affect Anabaptist faith and culture.
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Josh
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Re: Alabama Church asks permission to have Police Force

Post by Josh »

undershepherd wrote:Perhaps some of you are rushing to judgement without understanding the context here. I'm not saying it is the right thing to do, but there is a whole lot more going on at Briarwood than just a church and most institutions like this would have similar practices. I am not sure why the media is making such a big deal about it.

http://www.al.com/living/index.ssf/2017 ... rch_2.html
Just because most institutions do, does that make it right?

Why does the world seem to know that Christians shouldn't lay plans to shoot people, but Christians themselves seem very confused on that issue?
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Sudsy
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Re: Alabama Church asks permission to have Police Force

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"The sole purpose of this proposed legislation is to provide a safe environment for the church, its members, students and guests."
"I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more."

"But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows."

"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

“Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.”

“Peace is what I leave with you; it is my own peace that I give you. I do not give it as the world does. Do not be worried and upset; do not be afraid.”

“Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me.”

“Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous. Do not be terrified; do not be discouraged, for the Lord your God will be with you wherever you go.”

“The Lord is my light and my salvation—whom shall I fear? The Lord is the stronghold of my life—of whom shall I be afraid?”

“I prayed to the Lord, and he answered me. He freed me from all my fears.”

" For he will order his angels to protect you wherever you go".

I don't understand this need for man to provide for us a safe environment when God tells us not to worry about such things. O we of little faith.
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Josh
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Re: Alabama Church asks permission to have Police Force

Post by Josh »

Seems the state could just authorise police forces to be organised in various large campuses, accountable to the citizens, property owners, and other stakeholders.

I also question if Christians should be in charge of things so big that they need their own police force.
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temporal1
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Re: Alabama Church asks permission to have Police Force

Post by temporal1 »

undershepherd wrote:Perhaps some of you are rushing to judgement without understanding the context here. I'm not saying it is the right thing to do, but there is a whole lot more going on at Briarwood than just a church and most institutions like this would have similar practices.

I am not sure why the media is making such a big deal about it. :-|

http://www.al.com/living/index.ssf/2017 ... rch_2.html
thanks, undershepherd. this adds helpful perspective.
from this description, there is no real change in what they've been doing, this is mostly an admin change (?)

i'm not Presby, not about to attend a mega church; "peace officers" perform many services, most probably never fire a weapon while on duty in their careers .. no one is suggesting all churches hire police ("that" would represent a change.)

unfortunately, there is reason to question media motives-intent. :(
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Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


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undershepherd
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Re: Alabama Church asks permission to have Police Force

Post by undershepherd »

Just to put this in perspective, most large Mennonite institutions of higher learning have similar practices/procedures. Again, I am not saying it is right or that I would defend the practice. But don't be so quick to blame a certain brand of theology for producing this practice when various denominations from various theological streams do the same thing.
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Josh
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Re: Alabama Church asks permission to have Police Force

Post by Josh »

undershepherd wrote:Just to put this in perspective, most large Mennonite institutions of higher learning have similar practices/procedures. Again, I am not saying it is right or that I would defend the practice. But don't be so quick to blame a certain brand of theology for producing this practice when various denominations from various theological streams do the same thing.
Likewise most such institutions embrace homosexual "marriage".
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Dan Z
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Re: Alabama Church asks permission to have Police Force

Post by Dan Z »

undershepherd wrote:Just to put this in perspective, most large Mennonite institutions of higher learning have similar practices/procedures. Again, I am not saying it is right or that I would defend the practice. But don't be so quick to blame a certain brand of theology for producing this practice when various denominations from various theological streams do the same thing.
I agree undershepherd with not blaming reformed theology in particular for the choice to arm a church complex. The decision could easily been made by any church that embraces the use of the sword - as most do in this country. For example, there has been a push of late by gun rights advocates in a number of church circles to change laws that restrict concealed firearms in houses of worship.

Beyond the issue of arming churches however is the intermingling of civil force and ecclesiastical authority - and we all know how that tends to go.

However, do Mennonite institutions really have armed security guards on campus? Which ones? Honestly, I'd be hugely disappointed if this is the case.
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EdselB
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Re: Alabama Church asks permission to have Police Force

Post by EdselB »

undershepherd wrote:Just to put this in perspective, most large Mennonite institutions of higher learning have similar practices/procedures.
You really ought to do your research before you make such unwarranted statements. FYI

EMU Campus Security and Fire Safety Report 2016
Contract security officers do not possess arrest powers. Criminal incidents are referred to the
local police who have jurisdiction on the campus.

EMU has Memorandums of Understanding (MOUs) with the Harrisonburg Police Department
and Virginia State Police which define and establish procedures and practices for cooperation in
the investigation of crimes and acts of violence.
https://emu.edu/cms-links/safety-and-se ... t-2016.pdf


Goshen College
Security members are always in uniform, and carry a radio-telephone with them. They are not armed and do not have law enforcement authority or the power to arrest. An excellent relationship exists between the College and the Goshen Police Department and Goshen Fire Department. Regular meetings occur between Campus Security and Goshen Police officials on a formal and informal basis; officers confer regularly as responsibilities dictate around incidents that occur in and around the campus area. There is no written memorandum of understanding between Goshen Police Department and Campus Security. Campus Security also occasionally works with the Elkhart County Sheriff’s department and the Indiana State Police.
https://www.goshen.edu/safety/student-l ... rity-staff

Bluffton University - Student life handbook
Weapons--Firearms or other kinds of weapons are not permitted in any of the Bluffton University buildings or on any part of the campus, including vehicles. Knives may not have blades longer than 3 inches. Airsoft guns or any toys that look like weapons are not allowed on campus.

Security for the campus is provided by night security personnel and the Bluffton police patrol the campus on a 24-hour basis. The night security personnel are not police officers and, therefore, report all suspicious activities to the Bluffton police. The night security personnel and the vice president for student life and dean of students work closely with the Bluffton police in dealing with criminal activities on campus.
http://www.bluffton.edu/STUDENTlife/handbook/security/

Bethel College Annual Security & Fire Safety Report 2016
Each evening during the standard academic year, there are two (2) Community Assistants on Duty
O Responsibilities include: walking through each residential community twice each
evening; responding to alleged policy violations; checking the safety and security of
residence halls; contacting professional staff members &/or community safety agencies
(police, fire, ambulance) if necessary.
 Each evening during the standard academic year, there is one (1) Professional Staff On Duty
O Responsibilities include: providing counsel to the Community Assistants; helping assess
emergency situations; facilitating the exchange of information between Bethel College
administration and/or the community safety agencies
 Bethel College maintenance staff walks through buildings to address safety and security concerns
on a regular basis.
 Bethel College complies with appropriate requests for information from local and state officials
including the state fire marshal.
https://www.bethelks.edu/_userfiles/1/f ... Report.pdf

Hesston College III. CAMPUS LAW ENFORCEMENT
Hesston College has a small campus located in a small community, and at this point it is not necessary for the college to employ its own campus law enforcement personnel. As indicated above, the college works closely with local city police staff, and is satisfied with the excellent coverage provided by the local police. They are fully cooperative in supporting college policies and programs, and the college in turn does all it can to support their work.

In light of the fact that there is no campus security force, the responsibility for campus security rests with the vice president of student development in conjunction with the dean of students and his or her staff.
http://www.hesston.edu/student-developm ... awareness/
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Hats Off
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Re: Alabama Church asks permission to have Police Force

Post by Hats Off »

Thanks, Edsel, for the this reassuring post.
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temporal1
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Re: Alabama Church asks permission to have Police Force

Post by temporal1 »

EdselB, did you read the link undershepherd shared?
the content seems very similar to the helpful quotes you shared .. regarding existing reliance on and cooperation with community police.

from what is described, this Presby church isn't making a policy change, it's more of an admin change regarding how to pay for security, and how to have more consistent security. they aren't changing the fact that they address general security .. (as do each of the examples you shared.)
It would not involve a jail or other facilities - basically an officer and an official car, he said. "I couldn't imagine it would be something more than that," Johnston said.
"If there is an arrest on campus, the local jurisdiction would be called and they would come pick the person up."
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Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


”We’re all just walking each other home.”
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