Alabama Church asks permission to have Police Force

Events occurring and how they relate/affect Anabaptist faith and culture.
Sudsy
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Re: Alabama Church asks permission to have Police Force

Post by Sudsy »

Soloist wrote: Do you not believe in non-resistance? Are you a "just war" kind of guy?


I believe that a Christian need not get involved in a role that may require killing of another human being. However, a police officer is primarily involved with maintaining the peace and the vast majority of police officers never kill anyone throughout their career. Many never even draw their gun. I would not pursue a police career as we Christians have other ways to promote peace that do not require killing anyone. But I respect those police officers who work continuously to maintain the peace and are willing to risk their lives doing it. I don't believe, nor does the law, that when a police officer kills someone they are murdering them and must be treated as a murderer. I think God looks at this the same.

Regarding "just war", again we Christians don't need to get involved in the killing aspects of war. We can serve others who are affected by the war and promote peace aside from the violent approach. I'll leave which wars are required and which are not up to God. He has ways above our ways to bring about His plans.

I don't believe in non-resistance in the sense that we are in a war, a spiritual war, and are told to resist. Not a war of flesh and blood but a far greater war in the spirit realm. We are told what our armour looks like and to not be pacifists in the sense of 'doing nothing'. I believe the scriptures indicate that a 'doing nothing pacifist' is sinning when they are not active in the war we believers are in.

The Church should not be so worried about it's physical existence seeking protection but rather should be extremely concerned and ready to fight against what the forces of evil are hitting us with spiritually.
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Judas Maccabeus
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Re: Alabama Church asks permission to have Police Force

Post by Judas Maccabeus »

JimFoxvog wrote:
Josh wrote:... and the police rarely ever kill anybody and we don't have widespread problem with corruption and bribes.
957 in the US last year. Here's a link to the running count for this year in the US: http://killedbypolice.net/

If there is a mentally ill or non-white person person present, one should be very hesitant to call police even if you have not decided against calling on armed force as a general principle.
However. Paul reported a potential crime to the authorities:

Acts 23:16-26 But when the son of Paul’s sister heard of this plot, he went into the barracks and told Paul. Then Paul called one of the centurions and said, “Take this young man to the commander; he has something to tell him.” So he took him to the commander. The centurion said, “Paul, the prisoner, sent for me and asked me to bring this young man to you because he has something to tell you.” The commander took the young man by the hand, drew him aside and asked, “What is it you want to tell me?” He said: “Some Jews have agreed to ask you to bring Paul before the Sanhedrin tomorrow on the pretext of wanting more accurate information about him. Don’t give in to them, because more than forty of them are waiting in ambush for him. They have taken an oath not to eat or drink until they have killed him. They are ready now, waiting for your consent to their request.” The commander dismissed the young man with this warning: “Don’t tell anyone that you have reported this to me.”
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JimFoxvog
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Re: Alabama Church asks permission to have Police Force

Post by JimFoxvog »

Josh wrote: Your position essentially seems to be that people of colour or people with any kind of mental illness should never, ever call the police at all. So, in essence, you're saying that evil people should be allowed to use any kind of force or violence against them they want...
If someone is so out of it they can't respond well to police commands, when police come they are at great risk. Dark skinned people often get shot for no good reason, even if they are the ones who called the police for help. Happily, there are non-violent ways to resist evil. Let us people who believe in God's love for all take risks ourselves to defuse violence, particularly those of us of more privileged demographics.
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Josh
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Re: Alabama Church asks permission to have Police Force

Post by Josh »

JimFoxvog wrote:
Josh wrote: Your position essentially seems to be that people of colour or people with any kind of mental illness should never, ever call the police at all. So, in essence, you're saying that evil people should be allowed to use any kind of force or violence against them they want...
If someone is so out of it they can't respond well to police commands, when police come they are at great risk. Dark skinned people often get shot for no good reason, even if they are the ones who called the police for help. Happily, there are non-violent ways to resist evil. Let us people who believe in God's love for all take risks ourselves to defuse violence, particularly those of us of more privileged demographics.
There's nothing I can do with my "privilege" to defuse bank robberies. This is an area where law enforcement is needed (and in areas where law enforcement is lax, businesses like banks will use private security which is even less just).
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mennobiker
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Re: Alabama Church asks permission to have Police Force

Post by mennobiker »

So I guess the next logical question is " is it possible to be in the military or law enforcement and also be a Christian"?
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JimFoxvog
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Re: Alabama Church asks permission to have Police Force

Post by JimFoxvog »

mennobiker wrote:So I guess the next logical question is " is it possible to be in the military or law enforcement and also be a Christian"?
Christians do all sorts of things that God doesn't want then to do. But God is merciful and forgiving.
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Re: Alabama Church asks permission to have Police Force

Post by mennobiker »

JimFoxvog, would you invite a police officer into your fellowship? Or are they to far off the reservation? I guess I am asking, based on your statement about a merciful God, are they truly saved? How far does this mercy reach? Is their profession placing them outside of the reach of grace? Simply curious.
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ohio jones
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Re: Alabama Church asks permission to have Police Force

Post by ohio jones »

mennobiker wrote:So I guess the next logical question is " is it possible to be in the military or law enforcement and also be a Christian"?
It's not my place to question their Christianity, but I certainly would question the wisdom of someone who voluntarily put themself in a position where their commitment to following Jesus would be very likely to conflict with their job description.

The question seems analogous to "Is it possible to be an honest politician?" Theoretically it might be, but sooner or later a choice will need to be made.
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JimFoxvog
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Re: Alabama Church asks permission to have Police Force

Post by JimFoxvog »

mennobiker wrote:JimFoxvog, would you invite a police officer into your fellowship? Or are they to far off the reservation? I guess I am asking, based on your statement about a merciful God, are they truly saved? How far does this mercy reach? Is their profession placing them outside of the reach of grace? Simply curious.
We've had a Christian police officer make an excellent presentation about conflict resolution. I expect most of us have some part of our understanding of God's plan for us incorrect. But our membership commitment includes the question, "Do you commit yourself to: .... Forsake war and violence and love enemies?" Any police officer would have to commit to forsake violence to become a member.
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RZehr
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Re: Alabama Church asks permission to have Police Force

Post by RZehr »

mennobiker wrote:So I guess the next logical question is " is it possible to be in the military or law enforcement and also be a Christian"?
Are we looking for the lowest level of Christlikeness necessary to slide into heaven on? Is our eyes looking to the left to see how close to sin we can get without crossing the line into definate sin?
Or is our eyes to the right, on Jesus example and His teachings, and trying to live as Christlike as possible?
I believe if our eyes our to the right, we will not join the military or law enforcement.

That doesn't directly answer your question.
Is it possible? Depends what their role is, but yes it is possible. But it should be, and I hope is, temporary ignorance of a more perfect understanding.
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