A hero of our time: Tou Thao

[PetrChelcicky]

Reforming the application of "justice" is, in principle, a good idea and Mennonites can be praised for it (even if "restorative justice" tends to become a mere slogan for Soros-DA's who simply want to be soft w.r.t. criminals).
One of the most shameful parts in the American legal system is the "plea deal". It is in effect a return to the late-medieval/early modern system of torture.
In that time, damnation required a confession; so, if confessions could not be got in a civil way, one had to get them by violence or menace of violence.
Our modern attorneys are somewhat more human. They don't "show the instruments", they simply explain to the accused that he will get a life sentence if he does not confess, but that a confession will reduce this to only half the time. Less brutal, but just as effective.
Effective above all by "making people believe". "Maria Butina must be a Russian agent - you see, she admitted it herself" follows the same logic as "Abigail Osborn must be a witch - you see, she admitted it herself". This kind of arguing is impossible to overcome, even today.
(An aside: The state feels not obliged to keep his promises. The "Brunswick Three" gave in to a plea deal because the state promised to keep them in a federal prison, but the promise was broken.)

Plea deals are as American as apple pie, most inborn and White Americans are too corrupted by that system. So it has needed an East Asian to simply reject a plea deal because he does not want to lie. This is police officer Tou Thao. He declared to the judge that it would be "a lie and a sin" for him to accept the plea deal - even if that can mean for him a prison term four times as long (twelve instead of three years).
Shouldn't this man be a model for Mennonites and other Christians?
Source: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/fo ... r-AA10Hyrb

[Szdfan]

There are definitely problems with the legal system. Plea deals are one of them.

However, Tou Thao stood by and did nothing while Derek Chauvin publicly murdered George Floyd. He’s not a hero.

[Josh]

There are definitely problems with the legal system. Plea deals are one of them.

However, Tou Thao stood by and did nothing while Derek Chauvin publicly murdered George Floyd. He’s not a hero.

So are you saying he should plea to a crime he doesn’t think he committed?

[temporal1]

Guten tag, PetrC.

PetrC:
.. Plea deals are as American as apple pie ..

i would word it, “secular law” has become as American as apple pie.

Sorry to say, the reality is BOLDLY reflected even on this forum, the influence may be impossible to extract from (our) brains.
It’s a deep shame how love of human legal reasoning, esp “the end justifies the means,” has eclipsed Jesus-modeled honor, self-sacrifice .. with love of self and (cough) pride.

It’s chilling to recognize how much of this was inadvertantly put in process in the 1960’s; but, heavens, it was (law school educated) WJ Clinton as POTUS, that personified it, putting it all on steroids, ripple effects have not ended.

To think, NIXON’s resignation may have been the last of the last of its kind in U.S. politics.
No resignation for WJC! - o.no. not on his radar. It’s all about manipulating legal language, continuing in pride, no matter what.

i see this as abandoning any semblance of worship and submission to God, replaced with worship of self, seeking after human law/human reasoning/government as god. A false god.

There is much to grieve.

Szd:
.. He’s not a hero.

Neither is/was George Floyd.
All lives matter, even lives of sinners and criminals.

In this case, i’m dumbfounded police unions were not held materially accountable for returning a recognized bad apple to active duty, which resulted in a death of a resisting criminal under arrest. Stop this union practice of directly enabling the incompetent and corrupt, it might quickly end these incidents. Unions are known for this.

i’m NOT against unions, per se.
NO human endeavor can be trusted to be faultless, all require strict accountability, or evil will settle in.
Unions demand loyalty. The human-contrived recipe for disaster.

What some of our neighbors are saying:

DOC RICH / CANDACE OWENS
The media is LYING to you about George Floyd and Ma'Khia Bryant / -22min



TY SMITH / CANDACE OWENS
Breaking News! Candace Owens documentary -The Greatest Lie Ever Told George Floyd & the Rise of BLM / -10min


PetrC,
i believe the root of what you’re saddened by is the turn away from Jesus-centered honor, on personal and cultural levels,
to seek after secular pride and “the end justifies the means.”

It’s a grave twist, there is no bottom to the secular pit.

[temporal1]

An example of damage done:

Judge Jeanine on Alec Baldwin 'Rust' shooting: 'If the gun was broken, why did it work?' / 4:30min


1998 / WJC: “i did not have sexual relations with that woman.” (POTUS)

2022 / Alec B: “i did not pull that trigger.” (hollywood creep)

Denial is now LEGAL SOP. Routine. Then, plea deals. [Thus, “A hero of our time: Tou Thao”]
Secular law schools have deeply damaged integrity in all of U.S. culture.

No honor. Relaced with:
“The end justifies the means.”

[temporal1]

PetrC:
Shouldn't this man be a model for Mennonites and other Christians?
Source: https://

Authentic Christians have the expectation of personal accountability, honor, others above self.
(i believe) it’s this disparity that is at center of most forum angst found here.

many of us don’t want to believe the world has fallen so far. never perfect, Quakers and others contributed to a sense of a common denominator in honor, voluntary accountability. this creates a big rift, it’s insidious, honestly, often not even recognized!

prior, Christian values were held in high esteem. in courts of law, too!
currently, Christianity is not PC, it can take courage (or a death wish) to mention it.

that’s quite a turn around from, let’s say, 1960’s. if Pastor MLK Jr revisited today, would he be horrified at results?
did he intend to turn folks away from God to government, secularism?! i pray not. i really do.

[barnhart]

Plea deals are as American as apple pie, most inborn and White Americans are too corrupted by that system. So it has needed an East Asian to simply reject a plea deal because he does not want to lie. This is police officer Tou Thao. He declared to the judge that it would be "a lie and a sin" for him to accept the plea deal - even if that can mean for him a prison term four times as long (twelve instead of three years).
Shouldn't this man be a model for Mennonites and other Christians?
Source: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/fo ... r-AA10Hyrb

I haven't been following this case, but I think people should be honest even when, or maybe especially when it is costly. Lying (bearing false witness) for advantage is corrosive to the soul. I don't think of it as heroic but just walking in the light.
I've had enough contact with the legal/prison system to suspect that on average, people caught up in it would have been better off refusing plea deals for things they did not do.

[Bootstrap]

Shouldn't this man be a model for Mennonites and other Christians?

This is what we have juries for.

Tou Thao was sentenced Wednesday to three-and-a-half years for his part in George Floyd's murder. The jury found they prevented Floyd from getting medical care failed to stop Derek Chauvin as he knelt on Floyd's neck for 9 1/2 minutes, watching Floyd gasp for air and then die.

Mennonites don't usually see that kind of behavior as a model. I don't think we should use social media, including MN, as a substitute for juries. I think we should be careful about making convicted felons our heroes.

[RZehr]

Plea deals are as American as apple pie, most inborn and White Americans are too corrupted by that system. So it has needed an East Asian to simply reject a plea deal because he does not want to lie. This is police officer Tou Thao. He declared to the judge that it would be "a lie and a sin" for him to accept the plea deal - even if that can mean for him a prison term four times as long (twelve instead of three years).
Shouldn't this man be a model for Mennonites and other Christians?
Source: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/fo ... r-AA10Hyrb

I haven't been following this case, but I think people should be honest even when, or maybe especially when it is costly. Lying (bearing false witness) for advantage is corrosive to the soul. I don't think of it as heroic but just walking in the light.
I've had enough contact with the legal/prison system to suspect that on average, people caught up in it would have been better off refusing plea deals for things they did not do.

I strongly agree. I too have seen people take a plea deal and “admit” they were guilty when they were not. It’s dishonest. They did it because they thought it was the easiest way out.

[temporal1]

Plea deals are as American as apple pie, most inborn and White Americans are too corrupted by that system. So it has needed an East Asian to simply reject a plea deal because he does not want to lie. This is police officer Tou Thao. He declared to the judge that it would be "a lie and a sin" for him to accept the plea deal - even if that can mean for him a prison term four times as long (twelve instead of three years).
Shouldn't this man be a model for Mennonites and other Christians?
Source: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/fo ... r-AA10Hyrb

I haven't been following this case, but I think people should be honest even when, or maybe especially when it is costly.

Lying (bearing false witness) for advantage is corrosive to the soul.
I don't think of it as heroic but just walking in the light.

I've had enough contact with the legal/prison system to suspect that on average, people caught up in it would have been better off refusing plea deals for things they did not do.

I strongly agree.

Two recent real life examples of how Christians respond to the legal system are Ken Miller and Lisa Miller (the principal names involved). For their honesty, humility, forthrightness (from reports, i believe) the courts attempted to extend mercy.

They kept their faith central, God provided strength and direction, as He promises. They walked in the Light.