United Airlines - Costly mistake

Events occurring and how they relate/affect Anabaptist faith and culture.
RZehr
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Re: United Airlines - Costly mistake

Post by RZehr »

Bootstrap wrote:
RZehr wrote:So am I understanding this math right? These airlines have a policy must have worked most of the time.
A policy that garnered no public outcry in 40,999 times in just the last year, 99.997%. They had a policy that worked on all but .002% of the time and that is apparently completely unacceptable?
What they did to Mr. Dao is unacceptable enough that Chicago is reconsidering their approach to airport police, some jobs are on the line, United had to change their policy and make a public apology, and their stock price is down.

Suppose I asked you to explain to Mr. Dao why what happened to him is acceptable. What would you tell him?

What would you tell other passengers sitting near him who were horrified and filmed this because they thought the world should know, even though nobody was taking their seats?

These algorithms work very well in general. But a few flagrant exceptions is a big deal. After all, suppose 99% of women are not raped, but your wife is. Is that acceptable?

Why on earth wouldn't United rather give someone a check to free up the seat they paid for than let something like this happen? As of today, they have pretty much decided that's what they would rather do. Does anyone really think United is silly to change their policy?
So many unknowns here.
I feel badly for Mr. Dao. And if I were to talk with him, I would show sympathy and be diplomatic since I have no relationship with him at all. At the same time, I wonder this: At the initial contact, did the police engage him in a manner consistent with 40,000 other times? If not, then the blame (in my mind) shifts significantly higher onto the police.
If the police engaged him in a polite, consistent manner, and he responded drastically different than 40,000 other people, then perhaps he does bare some of the blame. For example, if he refused to be removed and starts hitting people and the police, then I would consider him partially at fault. For all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. Or all they that hit, shall be hit. Speaking speculatively here, admittedly, I can't see this being the case.
In this deal, both parties have the power to decelerate the situation and resolve it peacefully, which is what separates this deal from a rape scenario.

Here is where I am at:
If he was attacked, without the expected beseeching and warnings, then he has all my sympathy, and the police should be disciplined. I still don't see United at much fault.
If they spent time negotiating and warning him that they were going to use force, and then got angry and smashed his face, I have plenty of sympathy for him and the police should be disciplined.
If they spent time negotiating, pleading, warning, and he was belligerent, and in the process of removal he fell and was injured, I'm sorry for his pain, but I think he could have chosen to behave as the prior 40,000 people did. The police should at minimum be better trained not to drag him out the aisle, bleeding.

What would I tell the other passengers? Not sure I'd tell them anything unless I was asked. Then I would default into the Christian position, and tell the best thing to do as passengers is to take a wrong, and give up their seat.
This is a point of separation in the liberal Mennos and the Plain Mennos. Liberals are more inclined toward protesting injustices; We are inclined to exhort people to embrace suffering wrongfully.
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ohio jones
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Re: United Airlines - Costly mistake

Post by ohio jones »

Josh wrote:(I kind of wish someone else was posting who travels frequently and has been IDB'd.)
Some people think I travel frequently, but that's a matter of perspective. I have never been IDB'd. I've never even had a VDB offer at a time and price I was willing to accept (and they seem to be increasingly rare); when I'm able to volunteer and ask about doing so they never need me. :evil:

What I have been able to do sometimes is proactively rebook when a delay or misconnect is imminent, or make a same day confirmed change when I can do so without cost. If there's a seat available on the flight I want, it's often not a problem to get it, or at least get on the standby list. But that's a function of knowing the rules and operating within them.
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Hats Off
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Re: United Airlines - Costly mistake

Post by Hats Off »

I just find it very interesting to see the number of posts on this topic. It seems to me what happened here is something that would not have happened to non-resistant people. I don't even see how I can "judge" the actions of anyone that had part in this episode.
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temporal1
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Re: United Airlines - Costly mistake

Post by temporal1 »

End of discussion?
Delta speaks: $$$
http://www.fox32chicago.com/news/nation ... 6519-story
Last edited by temporal1 on Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


”We’re all just walking each other home.”
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temporal1
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Re: United Airlines - Costly mistake

Post by temporal1 »

Hats Off wrote:I just find it very interesting to see the number of posts on this topic. It seems to me what happened here is something that would not have happened to non-resistant people. I don't even see how I can "judge" the actions of anyone that had part in this episode.
not just non-resistant folks. the vast majority of folks have managed to cope with travel inconveniences for decades .. all faiths, all cultures, all countries ..

there is a court for this particular United event, if it's not settled prior; a judge/jury will rule (with the benefit of facts to help them.)
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Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


”We’re all just walking each other home.”
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temporal1
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Re: United Airlines - Costly mistake

Post by temporal1 »

ohio jones wrote:
Josh wrote:(I kind of wish someone else was posting who travels frequently and has been IDB'd.)
Some people think I travel frequently, but that's a matter of perspective. I have never been IDB'd. I've never even had a VDB offer at a time and price I was willing to accept (and they seem to be increasingly rare); when I'm able to volunteer and ask about doing so they never need me. :evil:

What I have been able to do sometimes is proactively rebook when a delay or misconnect is imminent, or make a same day confirmed change when I can do so without cost. If there's a seat available on the flight I want, it's often not a problem to get it, or at least get on the standby list. But that's a function of knowing the rules and operating within them.
for decades, i've known lots of folks who WANTED to be bumped, for the lucrative perks. nothing new. i, too, have sort of sensed they haven't been as common as in the past.

i've been on busy flights where offers were made, plenty of passengers willing to change plans, so, i never had to leave. i've been on packed flights where passengers had to be moved around to accomodate others .. not fun when you want to sit with family/friends, but, c'est la vie. :)

now that Delta "has spoken $$$" this practice will likely come to a full halt.
and, the cheap fares (i've really enjoyed) will probably disappear.
sorry, oj. :)

be careful what you ask/yell for. you just might get it. :P
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temporal1
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Re: United Airlines - Costly mistake

Post by temporal1 »

Don't fret, tho .. the next social media frenzy is underway ..
Penn Station Panic
http://www.fox32chicago.com/news/nation ... 6519-story
A Taser incident at Penn Station caused chaos at the terminal Friday night after police received false reports of shots being fired, according to officials and social media accounts.

A man was subdued by Amtrak police with a Taser inside the station and is now in police custody, Amtrak said in an emailed statement.Amtrak did not comment on why the man was subdued.
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Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


”We’re all just walking each other home.”
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ohio jones
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Re: United Airlines - Costly mistake

Post by ohio jones »

temporal1 wrote:Delta speaks: $$$
Since United's management strategy for the last few years has been "copy Delta" it seems likely they will adopt something very similar.
temporal1 wrote:and, the cheap fares (i've really enjoyed) will probably disappear.
I doubt this will have any more impact than a temporary blip. The overall numbers just aren't that significant.
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I grew up around Indiana, You grew up around Galilee; And if I ever really do grow up, I wanna grow up to be just like You -- Rich Mullins

I am a Christian and my name is Pilgram; I'm on a journey, but I'm not alone -- NewSong, slightly edited
Sudsy
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Re: United Airlines - Costly mistake

Post by Sudsy »

Hats Off wrote:I just find it very interesting to see the number of posts on this topic. It seems to me what happened here is something that would not have happened to non-resistant people. I don't even see how I can "judge" the actions of anyone that had part in this episode.
Is this verse applicable here - "What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?" - 1 Cor 5:12
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appleman2006
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Re: United Airlines - Costly mistake

Post by appleman2006 »

Josh wrote:Personally, I really question what kind of person isn't happy about getting $1,350 in exchange for the inconvenience of being a day late to their destination.

Do any of us really do anything so important it's not worth $1,350? What if the weather delayed us a day?
It all depends. 1350 in cash would be one thing. 1350 in vouchers quite another.

Also keep in mind that many people, perhaps the vast majority that are flying are actually flying for their job and company and so may not even be able to make that decision without first consulting their superior. If the company is paying their flight and hotel there is probably a reason why they need to be at their destination that day and not a day later.

Most times when I fly especially on the way out a day late means I may as well not go as it would mean I miss a board meeting or trade show date.

For me a personal vacation would be a complete different story. Or if I am on the way back from a business meeting. I could probably often reschedule my work load at home. Sometimes though it would be very inconvenient and cost the business a lot more than 1300 dollars by me not being there. I know that sounds strange but that is life in the 21st century.

having said all of that when I am flying I always remember in the back of my mind that things may not go as planned. I have no desire to raise my blood pressure or have a heart attack simply because my plans got messed up.

But really enough on this subject already.

We really do live in a strange world. And let us be honest. If United was the cheapest and the best way for us to get somewhere most of us would fly with them tomorrow. No questions asked and we would almost for sure get there without any hassles.
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