United Airlines - Costly mistake

Events occurring and how they relate/affect Anabaptist faith and culture.
Ernie
Posts: 5445
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 2:48 pm
Location: Central PA
Affiliation: Anabaptist Umbrella
Contact:

Re: United Airlines - Costly mistake

Post by Ernie »

Josh wrote:
Ernie wrote:True.
However I was looking at this strictly from a financial perspective of a large company. I was not attempting to judge who was right and who was wrong.
There are certain universal principles at work in the world that if people give attention to, it can help their bottom line, regardless of who was in the wrong.
I guess I deal with the financial perspective of large companies all day, and I also deal with the disconnect between what motivates employees and individual contributors, management, and executive management and what would be "best for the company".

I think God intervenes in the affairs of men and he often has different motivations than just seeing to it that well-run companies have the best bottom line. In fact, I'd say that a well-run company making lots of profit is very, very far from the kingdom of heaven.
I have no qualms with what you say here. I still think you are missing my reason for the OP.
0 x
The old woodcutter spoke again. “It is impossible to talk with you. You always draw conclusions. Life is so vast, yet you judge all of life with one page or one word. You see only a fragment. Unless you know the whole story, how can you judge?"
Ernie
Posts: 5445
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 2:48 pm
Location: Central PA
Affiliation: Anabaptist Umbrella
Contact:

Re: United Airlines - Costly mistake

Post by Ernie »

temporal1 wrote:Ernie, 'was hoping you would share your thoughts about how this topic is moving along.
Could you explain what you mean with the word, "universal," here?
When i read your words, the word/phrase i'm "defaulting to" is, "politically correct."
All I am saying is that there are certain principles that work, whether adhered to by Christians or by non-Christians. "Agreeing with your adversary quickly while you are in the way with him" works as well in 2017 as it did in AD 28.

Some companies figure this out without expensive errors. Others only learn through experience.

All truth is God's truth.
0 x
The old woodcutter spoke again. “It is impossible to talk with you. You always draw conclusions. Life is so vast, yet you judge all of life with one page or one word. You see only a fragment. Unless you know the whole story, how can you judge?"
temporal1
Posts: 16275
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:09 pm
Location: U.S. midwest and PNW
Affiliation: Christian other

Re: United Airlines - Costly mistake

Post by temporal1 »

Ernie wrote:
temporal1 wrote:Ernie, 'was hoping you would share your thoughts about how this topic is moving along.
Could you explain what you mean with the word, "universal," here?
When i read your words, the word/phrase i'm "defaulting to" is, "politically correct."
All I am saying is that there are certain principles that work, whether adhered to by Christians or by non-Christians. "Agreeing with your adversary quickly while you are in the way with him" works as well in 2017 as it did in AD 28.

Some companies figure this out without expensive errors. Others only learn through experience.

All truth is God's truth.
thank you. yes.
in retail, "the customer is always right." is a common business policy.

but airlines are not like retail shopping malls. they try to be inviting+accomodating. but.
they are heavily regulated by government, in my mind, close to military regulations.
i'm not a military person, but, from what i observe, this is what i surmise.

similar would be true of trains, cruise ships, etc.
they are a combination of appealing to a retail-like passenger market, but with loads of extra responsibilities, all regulated by strict government oversight.

United was following SOP of decades, they happened to get a passenger (possibly with a defiance disorder) .. he could have landed on any airline, with similar outcome.

esp since 9-11-2001, public transportation has become more of an .. outwardly gov regulated experience. everyone is impacted, even those on 1st Class, and flying privately.

folks are on edge about violence breaking out in any setting, esp in public settings.

i believe, Delta has now responded with an offer that should quiet the armchair lynch mob types, i.e., until they get their next scent of blood.

social media is an expose' of how ignorant the general population is, which is ok. ignorance, of itself, is not a shortcoming. worse, is how uninterested many are in learning better.

maybe a little more cyberspace sophistication will come with time?
as people realize "we have courts for that." and put their cameras+hair-trigger responses down.

in my flying experience (not extensive) it surprises me no other passenger volunteered to step up to help when this passenger showed distress.

maybe it means nothing.
but, there could be more to this story.

(that the doctor was behaving in a way that frightened others?) if so, it is SOP to physically remove such a passenger. it happens. there are established laws to allow removal of potentially threatening passengers. i'm ok with that. they can wage their battles on the ground. :-|
0 x
Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


”We’re all just walking each other home.”
UNKNOWN
Ernie
Posts: 5445
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 2:48 pm
Location: Central PA
Affiliation: Anabaptist Umbrella
Contact:

Re: United Airlines - Costly mistake

Post by Ernie »

0 x
The old woodcutter spoke again. “It is impossible to talk with you. You always draw conclusions. Life is so vast, yet you judge all of life with one page or one word. You see only a fragment. Unless you know the whole story, how can you judge?"
appleman2006
Posts: 2455
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 1:50 pm
Affiliation: Midwest Mennonite

Re: United Airlines - Costly mistake

Post by appleman2006 »

For those that still want more Google a pilotswifeslife for an interesting perspective.

For the record I actually agree with Josh that the passenger was as much if not more in the wrong than United but I also still think that United made a huge technical error in the way they handled this.

From a business perspective business are usually better off taking the high road even when they are in the right. In this case ironically government rules outside of the airline's control played into it but I still think that good negotiating skills would of helped.
0 x
ken_sylvania
Posts: 3969
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:46 pm
Affiliation: CM

Re: United Airlines - Costly mistake

Post by ken_sylvania »

appleman2006 wrote:For those that still want more Google a pilotswifeslife for an interesting perspective.

For the record I actually agree with Josh that the passenger was as much if not more in the wrong than United but I also still think that United made a huge technical error in the way they handled this.

From a business perspective business are usually better off taking the high road even when they are in the right. In this case ironically government rules outside of the airline's control played into it but I still think that good negotiating skills would of helped.
The passenger certainly could have saved himself a world of hurt if he had been willing to be "re-accommodated."

I read the pilotswife's article, but I happen to think the claim that government rules mandated they remove passengers to give the crew seats is false. I was unable to find any such FAA regulation. Also, United announced a policy change yesterday that would require its crews to check in for a flight 60 minutes prior to flight departure. If in fact this supposed regulation exists, the new policy would be in violation.

I think the pilotswifeslife article's author confused an airline policy with government regulation.
0 x
User avatar
Josh
Posts: 23806
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:23 pm
Location: 1000' ASL
Affiliation: The church of God

Re: United Airlines - Costly mistake

Post by Josh »

Some airline union contracts specify airline employees can basically get on any flight the need to regardless of over bookings.

I'm curious how they're going to get out of that one - whether the public likes it or not, airline staff are not very well paid. So they have to make concessions to unions to keep employees happy and not go on strike. One thing they can is make life easier for employees who need to travel.
0 x
User avatar
ohio jones
Posts: 5221
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:23 pm
Location: undisclosed
Affiliation: Rosedale Network

Re: United Airlines - Costly mistake

Post by ohio jones »

1 x
I grew up around Indiana, You grew up around Galilee; And if I ever really do grow up, I wanna grow up to be just like You -- Rich Mullins

I am a Christian and my name is Pilgram; I'm on a journey, but I'm not alone -- NewSong, slightly edited
temporal1
Posts: 16275
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:09 pm
Location: U.S. midwest and PNW
Affiliation: Christian other

Re: United Airlines - Costly mistake

Post by temporal1 »

ohio jones wrote:It just keeps getting worse ... :shock:
Mennonite Man Violently Tossed From Airplane in Midflight
Ohio .. did you run outside to catch him as he fell? :D

Why do you look for the living among the dead?
He is not here; he has risen!

Luke 24:5-6 NIV
0 x
Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


”We’re all just walking each other home.”
UNKNOWN
appleman2006
Posts: 2455
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 1:50 pm
Affiliation: Midwest Mennonite

Re: United Airlines - Costly mistake

Post by appleman2006 »

ken_sylvania wrote:
appleman2006 wrote:For those that still want more Google a pilotswifeslife for an interesting perspective.

For the record I actually agree with Josh that the passenger was as much if not more in the wrong than United but I also still think that United made a huge technical error in the way they handled this.

From a business perspective business are usually better off taking the high road even when they are in the right. In this case ironically government rules outside of the airline's control played into it but I still think that good negotiating skills would of helped.
The passenger certainly could have saved himself a world of hurt if he had been willing to be "re-accommodated."

I read the pilotswife's article, but I happen to think the claim that government rules mandated they remove passengers to give the crew seats is false. I was unable to find any such FAA regulation. Also, United announced a policy change yesterday that would require its crews to check in for a flight 60 minutes prior to flight departure. If in fact this supposed regulation exists, the new policy would be in violation.

I think the pilotswifeslife article's author confused an airline policy with government regulation.
You may be correct. I certainly did not take the time to check it out nor will I as it does not matter enough to me. I judged the article simply on the fact that it was well written and she does make some very good points.

As I said before, I still think that United handled this very badly, not illegally perhaps, but very badly in light of today's "youtube climate" . They should of known that they could never win in a situation like this.

But here are the things that I look at as a consumer. I like cheap airline tickets. I will sometimes be willing to put up with inconvenience to get them. I am fully aware that the airline very seldom makes money on the tickets I buy and so therefor I would expect that at times things will not be perfect for me. I actually believe that if I was made to give up my paying seat to an airline employee that is needed in another location that there is more than likely a very good reason that it needs to be done not the least being that a great many other people would be inconvenienced somewhere else if I do not give up my seat. I also fully recognize that if all the suggestions made by the airline haters in the last few days would be put into place that airline tickets would go up considerably.
And this last statement is going to be unpopular but I find it revolting that a grown up man, a doctor no less, can act like a spoiled child (in fact had any of my children ever acted this way there would of been a day of reckoning) and still be held up as a victim or a hero. Take your pick.
Oh and one more thing. The fact that Jesse Jackson and his ilk have now taken this on as their latest cause, convinces me even more of my stance.
0 x
Post Reply