The "Russian Hoax"

Events occurring and how they relate/affect Anabaptist faith and culture.
GaryK
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Re: The "Russian Hoax"

Post by GaryK »

Ken wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 6:07 pm
GaryK wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 5:54 pm
Ken wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 5:14 pm

The FBI records he is referencing is the preliminary documents drafted by Strzok to justify opening the Crossfire investigation. In other words, the search warrant affidavit or whatever they call it.
But the point he's making is not about those records. Note the underlined/bolded. The point he's making is part of the larger theme found throughout the executive summary, which is that the FBI departed from its standard procedures in opening Crossfire.
Even so, so what?
Then why imply that it was about the records?
Ken wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 6:07 pm Standard procedure? Every organization I have ever worked for had various written and unwritten procedures for various things. Sometimes we ignored them for the sake of expediency. Sometimes they made sense, sometimes they didn't. You can't write a procedure for every possible circumstance. It sounds like the FBI has already tightened up some of the things that have already been highlighted in the previous inspector general report prior to Durham. None of it amounts to any actual wrongdoing on the part of the FBI because had that been the case we would see indictments moving forward. Which we don't. If there are procedures that are important enough to set out in statute or regulation then Congress or the DOJ can certainly do so.

And clearly given all that has come out subsequently, the FBI was obviously correct to investigate Russian meddling in the 2016 election. In this case where there was smoke there was fire. Mueller secured indictments against at least 20 Russian nationals for interfering in the election. That should be concerning to every American.
But Mueller's investigation wasn't about whether or not the Russians meddled in the 2016 election. It was to determine whether or not the Trump campaign conspired with the Russians in order to sway the election and to investigate whether or not Trump was involved in obstruction of justice. But I think you knew all that already.
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Bootstrap
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Re: The "Russian Hoax"

Post by Bootstrap »

GaryK wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 6:14 pm
Bootstrap wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 5:46 pm Oh, I get it, at that particular time they did not YET have evidence that any of the Russians involved in campaign interference were INTELLIGENCE officials. That came later. So yes, TECHNICALLY, I believe what Durham said in the paragraph you quoted, but you can't read that in isolation.
The quote I referenced is quite clearly not about whether or not any of the Russians involved in campaign interference were intelligence officials and I think you know that. It's about the FACT that at the time of the opening of Crossfire the FBI had no evidence whatsoever that DURING THE CAMPAIGN anyone within the Trump campaign had been in contact with Russian intelligence officials.
But they did have evidence that members of the Trump campaign had unusual levels of contact with Russians who were close to the Russian government, while the Russian government was trying to influence our campaign. And Durham knows that.

And he wrote that sentence to be very, very specifically about intelligence officials. I suspect he did that for a reason. But it sounds like it means more than that, doesn't it?
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temporal1
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Re: The "Russian Hoax"

Post by temporal1 »

Durham Report EXPLAINED - Crossfire Hurricane Was Nothing Less Than an ATTEMPTED COUP - Viva Frei / 45:30min


Bio: David Freiheit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Freiheit
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Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


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Bootstrap
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Re: The "Russian Hoax"

Post by Bootstrap »

Big picture: Durham was asked to investigate whether crimes were committed when investigating Trump. And he was asked to prosecute any such crimes.

The introduction tells us that:
The Office has concluded its investigation into whether "'any federal official, employee, or any other person or entity violated the law in connection with the intelligence, counterintelligence, or law-enforcement activities directed at the 2016 presidential campaigns, individuals associated with those campaigns, and individuals associated with the administration of President Donald J. Trump."
There are no new prosecutions as a result of this report. No high level F.B.I. or intelligence official has been charged with a crime. There are no major new revelations. The only two people Durham charged were people who lied to the F.B.I., not people who worked for the F.B.I. or on any of these investigations.

And Durham did not find evidence of politically motivated misconduct. I think Lawfare does a good job of outlining the history of this investigation:

https://www.lawfareblog.com/notes-durha ... ding-diary
The FBI had claimed—and Special Counsel Robert Mueller had affirmed—that the whole thing started when an Australian diplomat named Alexander Downer provided the U.S. with information that a Trump campaign advisor named George Papadopoulos had volunteered in a London meeting over drinks that the Russians had “dirt” on Clinton in the form of “thousands of emails.” But a bunch of Trump supporters ginned up a set of conspiracy theories that this was not how the investigation started, that it all started with Steele, or some secret informant, or that the CIA was involved somehow. Barr had been quite indiscreet about his own conspiracy theories about the Russia investigation, talking openly in congressional hearings about “spying” on the Trump campaign. And major newspapers reported on how he and Durham had traveled overseas together seeking cooperation from foreign allied governments to upend the supposed Australian origins of the investigation.
And the Durham Report plainly says that the FBI was telling the truth. The reasons that Crossfire Hurricane and the Mueller Report gave were the real reasons that the investigation was opened:
a. The information used to predicate Crossfire Hurricane
In March 2016, the Trump campaign identified George Papadopoulos as a foreign policy advisor. Papadopoulos had previously worked as an energy consultant, with a particular focus on projects in the Eastern Mediterranean. At the time of his appointment, Papadopoulos was employed in the United Kingdom at the London Center of lntemational Law Practice. Among Papadopoulos's acquaintances in London was a diplomat from another country ("Foreign Government-I Diplomat-I"). Foreign Government-I Diplomat-I was familiar with an Australian diplomat ("Australian Diplomat-l").
So what laws were violated by whom in this investigation? There are some, but they are not new. The Horowitz Report already talked about the use of the Steele Report, which the FBI knew was unreliable, in the Carter Page FISA affair:

https://oig.justice.gov/node/16547

But that seems to have been the main use of the Steele Report, it was not widely relied on, and the Horowitz Report went into great length on that.

So ... did Durham find new people to prosecute? New instances of crimes that were committed? Proof of a deep state consipracy against Trump? IT sure doesn't look like it. But that's what he was authorized to look for. And that's why this report looks like a dud to me.
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Bootstrap
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Re: The "Russian Hoax"

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temporal1 wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 8:15 pm Durham Report EXPLAINED - Crossfire Hurricane Was Nothing Less Than an ATTEMPTED COUP - Viva Frei / 45:30min
If it was, people should be charged with crimes. Who did Durham charge, and with what crimes? After all, that's precisely what he was asked to do.

If the answer is nobody, that should tell us something.
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Ken
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Re: The "Russian Hoax"

Post by Ken »

GaryK wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 6:22 pm But Mueller's investigation wasn't about whether or not the Russians meddled in the 2016 election. It was to determine whether or not the Trump campaign conspired with the Russians in order to sway the election and to investigate whether or not Trump was involved in obstruction of justice. But I think you knew all that already.
It was about all of it. Russian interference and the Trump campaign involvement. Read the title of Rosenstein's memo in all capitals as well as the first paragraph:

Image
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Ken
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Re: The "Russian Hoax"

Post by Ken »

Bootstrap wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 8:32 pm Big picture: Durham was asked to investigate whether crimes were committed when investigating Trump. And he was asked to prosecute any such crimes.

The introduction tells us that:
The Office has concluded its investigation into whether "'any federal official, employee, or any other person or entity violated the law in connection with the intelligence, counterintelligence, or law-enforcement activities directed at the 2016 presidential campaigns, individuals associated with those campaigns, and individuals associated with the administration of President Donald J. Trump."
There are no new prosecutions as a result of this report. No high level F.B.I. or intelligence official has been charged with a crime. There are no major new revelations. The only two people Durham charged were people who lied to the F.B.I., not people who worked for the F.B.I. or on any of these investigations.
Correction. One person pled guilty to an unrelated crime and got probation. The only two people prosecuted by Durham were two people who were found NOT GUILTY of lying to the FBI.

What we could actually conclude is that Barr should never have launched the Durham investigation in the first place. That the Durham investigation was the actual political "witch hunt." Since they clearly had nothing. And he only did so in response to Trump's political interference. The exact thing Trump was claiming had happened to him.
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GaryK
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Re: The "Russian Hoax"

Post by GaryK »

Big picture:

Here are the questions Durham's investigation attempted to answer. Notice the final sentence in this quote from the report.
Our findings and conclusions regarding these and related questions are sobering.
* Was there adequate predication for the FBI to open the Crossfire Hurricane investigation
from its inception on July 31, 2016 as a full counterintelligence and Foreign Agents
• Was the opening of Crossfire Hurricane as a full investigation on July 31, 2016 consistent
with how the FBI handled other intelligence it had received prior to July 31, 2016
concerning attempts by foreign interests to influence the Clinton and other campaigns?
• Similarly, did the FBI properly consider other highly significant intelligence it received at
virtually the same time as that used to predicate Crossfire Hurricane, but which related
not to the Trump campaign, but rather to a purported Clinton campaign plan "to vilify
Donald Trump by stirring up a scandal claiming interference by Russian security
services," which might have shed light on some of the Russia information the FBI was
receiving from third parties, including the Steele Dossier, the Alfa Bank allegations and
confidential human source ("CHS") reporting? If not, were any provable federal crimes
committed in failing to do so?
• Was there evidence that the actions of any FBI personnel or third parties relating to the
Crossfire Hurricane investigation violated any federal criminal statutes, including the
prohibition against making false statements to federal officials? If so, was that evidence
sufficient to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt?
• Was there evidence that the actions of the FBI or Department personnei in providing false
or incomplete information to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court ("FISC")
violated any federal criminal statutes? If so, was there evidence sufficient to prove guilt
beyond a reasonable doubt?
Our findings and conclusions regarding these and related questions are sobering.
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GaryK
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Re: The "Russian Hoax"

Post by GaryK »

Ken wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 8:57 pm
Bootstrap wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 8:32 pm Big picture: Durham was asked to investigate whether crimes were committed when investigating Trump. And he was asked to prosecute any such crimes.

The introduction tells us that:
The Office has concluded its investigation into whether "'any federal official, employee, or any other person or entity violated the law in connection with the intelligence, counterintelligence, or law-enforcement activities directed at the 2016 presidential campaigns, individuals associated with those campaigns, and individuals associated with the administration of President Donald J. Trump."
There are no new prosecutions as a result of this report. No high level F.B.I. or intelligence official has been charged with a crime. There are no major new revelations. The only two people Durham charged were people who lied to the F.B.I., not people who worked for the F.B.I. or on any of these investigations.
Correction. One person pled guilty to an unrelated crime and got probation. The only two people prosecuted by Durham were two people who were found NOT GUILTY of lying to the FBI.

What we could actually conclude is that Barr should never have launched the Durham investigation in the first place. That the Durham investigation was the actual political "witch hunt." Since they clearly had nothing. And he only did so in response to Trump's political interference. The exact thing Trump was claiming had happened to him.
Have you read the executive summary?
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Ken
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Re: The "Russian Hoax"

Post by Ken »

GaryK wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 9:02 pm
Ken wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 8:57 pm
Bootstrap wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 8:32 pm Big picture: Durham was asked to investigate whether crimes were committed when investigating Trump. And he was asked to prosecute any such crimes.

The introduction tells us that:



There are no new prosecutions as a result of this report. No high level F.B.I. or intelligence official has been charged with a crime. There are no major new revelations. The only two people Durham charged were people who lied to the F.B.I., not people who worked for the F.B.I. or on any of these investigations.
Correction. One person pled guilty to an unrelated crime and got probation. The only two people prosecuted by Durham were two people who were found NOT GUILTY of lying to the FBI.

What we could actually conclude is that Barr should never have launched the Durham investigation in the first place. That the Durham investigation was the actual political "witch hunt." Since they clearly had nothing. And he only did so in response to Trump's political interference. The exact thing Trump was claiming had happened to him.
Have you read the executive summary?
Yes, it is all full of weasel words and says very little.
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