Trump turns Apolitical Mennonites into Protesters

Events occurring and how they relate/affect Anabaptist faith and culture.
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JimFoxvog
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Re: Trump turns Apolitical Mennonites into Protesters

Post by JimFoxvog »

Josh wrote:I think it's extremely honest to say that people's political opinions on immigrants tend to perfectly coincide with whether they identify with the Blue Team or the Red Team.
Are you saying only Democrats are compassionate toward foreigners in danger seeking safety?
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Wayne in Maine
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Re: Trump turns Apolitical Mennonites into Protesters

Post by Wayne in Maine »

JimFoxvog wrote:
Josh wrote:I think it's extremely honest to say that people's political opinions on immigrants tend to perfectly coincide with whether they identify with the Blue Team or the Red Team.
Are you saying only Democrats are compassionate toward foreigners in danger seeking safety?
I think he's saying that only Democrats are getting worked up over a Republican president putting restrictions on immigration.
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RZehr
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Re: Trump turns Apolitical Mennonites into Protesters

Post by RZehr »

I very much agree with what Wayne and Josh are saying.

There are obviously many exceptions.
One of my good friends in our church is very interested in presidential politics. He had a very pro Trump bias, one of the strongest pro Trump bias in our church.
The friend is also the only one in our church that went to Greece and volunteered at a refugee camp.
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Bootstrap
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Re: Trump turns Apolitical Mennonites into Protesters

Post by Bootstrap »

Josh wrote:
Bootstrap wrote:Kingdom values are a good thing. We don't have to let political parties define us. Really.
I think it's extremely honest to say that people's political opinions on immigrants tend to perfectly coincide with whether they identify with the Blue Team or the Red Team.
Not in the circles I live in.

I'm thinking mainly of two circles. The first is the group of people helping refugees in the United States. I don't usually know how these people vote, we don't talk about that much, but if church affiliation is any guide, I would say we're all over the map politically. We haven't staged protests, we have had prayer meetings, and at those meetings we are not allowed to criticize our leaders, only to pray for them.

The second is the foreign policy establishment. Until Trump, there was more agreement than disagreement on how to handle refugees and immigration across party affiliation, at least among experts. I know someone who served in the Bush Administration in the State department, he knows Dick Cheney and was very critical of Obama, but we agree strongly about Trump's executive actions. If you read Foreign Policy magazine, you see strong agreement across the political spectrum on many aspects of what is changing. America's moral authority and soft power matter. The way we treat immigrants is an important part of this.

Remember Ronald Reagan's City on the Hill Address?
Ronald Reagan wrote:But let it also be clear that we do not shirk history's call; that America is not turned inward but outward—toward others. Let it be clear that we have not lessened our commitment to peace or to the hope that someday all of the people of the world will enjoy lives of decency, lives with a degree of freedom, with a measure of dignity.

Together, tonight, let us say what so many long to hear: that America is still united, still strong, still compassionate, still clinging fast to the dream of peace and freedom, still willing to stand by those who are persecuted or alone.

For those who seek the right to self-determination without interference from foreign powers, tonight let us speak for them,

For those who suffer from social or religious discrimination,

For those who are victims of police states or government induced torture or terror,

For those who are persecuted,


For all the countries and people of the world who seek only to live in harmony with each other, tonight let us speak for them.
That was never just a partisan Democratic party agenda. That is a deep American virtue that has been shared by both parties. And until recently, it was hard to find Christians who didn't care a lot about welcoming refugees.

I think we lose our moral compass if we stop asking what is good, kind, and loving and start asking what each political party believes and who wins or loses politically. If you cannot explain why something is good or bad without talking about partisan politics, you probably aren't thinking clearly about the moral issues. If you can instantly tell what everyone else's motivation is and dismiss them without addressing the moral issues they raise, you're making it too easy on yourself.
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Bootstrap
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Re: Trump turns Apolitical Mennonites into Protesters

Post by Bootstrap »

Wayne in Maine wrote:Mary expressed what Good News is for a poor Nazarene maiden, citing the prophet Isaiah:

"He has shown strength with his arm;
he has scattered the proud in the thoughts of their hearts;
he has brought down the mighty from their thrones
and exalted those of humble estate;
he has filled the hungry with good things,
and the rich he has sent away empty."

That's not good news for the proud who are scattered or the rich who sent away empty.
Is it good news for refugees? Should we send them away?
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Josh
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Re: Trump turns Apolitical Mennonites into Protesters

Post by Josh »

Bootstrap wrote:
Wayne in Maine wrote:Mary expressed what Good News is for a poor Nazarene maiden, citing the prophet Isaiah:

"He has shown strength with his arm;
he has scattered the proud in the thoughts of their hearts;
he has brought down the mighty from their thrones
and exalted those of humble estate;
he has filled the hungry with good things,
and the rich he has sent away empty."

That's not good news for the proud who are scattered or the rich who sent away empty.
Is it good news for refugees? Should we send them away?
The "good news" has nothing to do with finding a way to gain a visa to a wealthy Western country.
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Bootstrap
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Re: Trump turns Apolitical Mennonites into Protesters

Post by Bootstrap »

Josh wrote:The "good news" has nothing to do with finding a way to gain a visa to a wealthy Western country.
How would you say that in biblical language?

I think the good news has a great deal to do with how we treat the poor, those who are in prison, and refugees from wars.
For I was hungry
and you gave Me nothing to eat;
I was thirsty
and you gave Me nothing to drink;
I was a stranger
and you didn’t take Me in;
I was naked
and you didn’t clothe Me,
sick and in prison
and you didn’t take care of Me.’
“Then they too will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or without clothes, or sick, or in prison, and not help You?’

“Then He will answer them, ‘I assure you: Whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for Me either.’
If we lose our Christian compassion, the salt has lost its savor. We cannot look like Jesus Christ if we do not look like his compassion.
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Josh
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Re: Trump turns Apolitical Mennonites into Protesters

Post by Josh »

Bootstrap wrote:
Josh wrote:The "good news" has nothing to do with finding a way to gain a visa to a wealthy Western country.
How would you say that in biblical language?

I think the good news has a great deal to do with how we treat the poor, those who are in prison, and refugees from wars.
For I was hungry
and you gave Me nothing to eat;
I was thirsty
and you gave Me nothing to drink;
I was a stranger
and you didn’t take Me in;
I was naked
and you didn’t clothe Me,
sick and in prison
and you didn’t take care of Me.’
“Then they too will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or without clothes, or sick, or in prison, and not help You?’

“Then He will answer them, ‘I assure you: Whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for Me either.’
If we lose our Christian compassion, the salt has lost its savor. We cannot look like Jesus Christ if we do not look like his compassion.
"We" has nothing to do with visa policies of wealthy western nations. I am not responsible for what the countries I live in decide to do. I certainly don't have much control at all over it.

Christian compassion also, in my opinion, isn't modelled by trying to help people migrate to wherever they will have the best economic opportunities. If anything, the kingdom of heaven looks quite different from pursuing wealth, physical safety (i.e. a country with a big powerful military), and being part of a dominant, culturally respected country.
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Haystack
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Re: Trump turns Apolitical Mennonites into Protesters

Post by Haystack »

I don't think any Mennonites, liberal or conservative, should be involved with protesting. I know the title is misleading as it doesn't sound like they were actually protesting in today's sense, but I still don't think it's a good thing to associate with. Recently I witnessed a political protest first hand, it was very bloody and violent. Instead of protesting, reach out, find ways around immigration, or find other ways to provide support for refuges. I honestly believe that doing anything to help them besides protesting is the best thing to do right now.
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Bootstrap
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Re: Trump turns Apolitical Mennonites into Protesters

Post by Bootstrap »

Haystack wrote:I honestly believe that doing anything to help them besides protesting is the best thing to do right now.
I've been spending 4-18 hours / week doing various things to help refugees who are here. I have not yet been in a protest. I have been in prayer meetings.
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Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?
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