Question re Roger Hertzler

Events occurring and how they relate/affect Anabaptist faith and culture.
Hats Off
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Re: Question re Roger Hertzler

Post by Hats Off »

Valerie, I really think the point about teaching women how to shop was made "tongue in cheek" by a man. In other words, don't take that comment seriously.
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RZehr
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Re: Question re Roger Hertzler

Post by RZehr »

Bootstrap wrote:
RZehr wrote:The narrative the article is peddling on this case is complete, unmitigated nonsense.
I was with Corrie at the motel on the morning of May 21 last year when she was "rescued" by Katlyn and taken to Seattle. Corrie said that Roger had paid for motel room.

Corrie and Daniel Silver both had accounts on MD.

Bottom line, she just didn't want to be plain anymore. Had nothing to do with any kind of abuse. And once she was 18, she left.
There's a lot about abuse in the article, I did not see any claims that Corrie was abused. Here's what I think it says about her:
A young woman in Oregon was trying to escape her family, Green told her. She had been home-schooled and was eager to go to college. But the woman said her fundamentalist parents believed higher education wasn’t part of “God’s plan” for her. When she insisted, they took away her laptop and cellphone.
So she wanted to leave her family and go to college. This seems to agree with what you say.

The article at least implies that she did not get much education when she was home-schooled. I have no idea if that's true or not, but it's the main allegation in the story. In particular, she says that her home-schooling did not prepare her to be able to live in the broader world:

Roger seems to equate her choices with choosing not to follow Christ.

You have knowledge of this situation, I do not. But I don't think this article charges Roger with abuse. It does charge other home-schooling parents with various kinds of abuse. I believe that does happen, I have just a little first-hand knowledge of that. I don't think most home-schooling parents are abusers, of course.

It also suggests that many home-schooling parents don't give their kids an adequate education for life in mainstream society. I have seen quite a bit of that. I think the article does sensationalize, but I also think there are valid issues here.

It's hard to know how to balance these concerns against concern for religious freedom and parent's rights.
You have a lot here for me to respond.

First, the article is shaded with abuse. I've never heard of any abuse in this case. That is the first reason that this case does not belong in this article.

Second, she was a minor, and her parents have the right to take away her laptop and phone if they feel it is right.

Third, the article insinuates that her identity card was confiscated. I don't know. But if we are making insinuations, I'll hint that she had her ID.

Fourth, this has nothing to do with homeschooling. Had she been in public school or our church school, and tried to pull this kind of stunt, the results from the parents would have been the same.

Fifth, this was not about education. She had a great home schooled education. While I admit I don't know how Roger feels about his daughters going to college. But it would not surprise me that had she been stable spiritually, and had a clear reason to go, he would have figured out a way for her to go. But this was not about education.



What does her story have to do with the narrative the article is selling? Nothing.
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Bootstrap
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Re: Question re Roger Hertzler

Post by Bootstrap »

RZehr wrote:What does her story have to do with the narrative the article is selling? Nothing.
I believe you. I'm sorry to have forced so much personal information about people into the open.
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mike
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Re: Question re Roger Hertzler

Post by mike »

Bootstrap wrote:
RZehr wrote:What does her story have to do with the narrative the article is selling? Nothing.
I believe you. I'm sorry to have forced so much personal information about people into the open.
Not your fault. Blame the reporter of this story. How often do you think it happens that reporters have an agenda, and don't give a rip about the truth? My guess is -- a lot.
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RZehr
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Re: Question re Roger Hertzler

Post by RZehr »

I've asked the moderators to edit my last post. To much information.
Last edited by RZehr on Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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appleman2006
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Re: Question re Roger Hertzler

Post by appleman2006 »

mike wrote:
Bootstrap wrote:
RZehr wrote:What does her story have to do with the narrative the article is selling? Nothing.
I believe you. I'm sorry to have forced so much personal information about people into the open.
Not your fault. Blame the reporter of this story. How often do you think it happens that reporters have an agenda, and don't give a rip about the truth? My guess is -- a lot.
And then they cry when people dare to question what they write. The sad thing is that there are cases of abuse out there big time. Some in faith communities and many many more in others. But when writers do this type of thing it actually hurts the cause they claim to care so much for. Why not spend a bit of time getting the facts straight and pick a case that actually is legit. They would not be that hard to find.
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Dan Z
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Re: Question re Roger Hertzler

Post by Dan Z »

I've seen it again and again...

This seems to be a common approach some reporters use - find a disgruntled young person, or better yet two, who leaves a somewhat non-mainstream group (Amish, Hutterite, Bruderhof, Homeschooled, etc.), allow them to tell you all the reasons they have been deprived and imprisoned by their "backward" upbringing and tyrannical parents, ignore the back story, and draw broad conclusions about the non-conformed group in question - particularly in how they hold back young people from all that modern society has to offer.

Don't get me wrong - there are certainly abusive/dysfunctional situations out there...and I agree that society (and the church) needs to be on guard and protect the vulnerability of children from abuse...but I seriously question whether homeschooling produces more dysfunctionality than, say, families of kids who attend public schools.

In fact, I suspect that because most homeschools are with intact families with parents who are actively engaged in their children's lives, and because a majority are raised in a strong faith context, homeschooled kids do better in the big scheme of things in a number of ways when compared to their public schooled counterparts.

A few examples to support this from research:
  • - The home-educated students typically score 15 to 30 percentile points above public-school students on standardized academic achievement tests. (The public school average is the 50th percentile; scores range from 1 to 99.)

    - Homeschool students score above average on achievement tests regardless of their parents’ level of formal education or their family’s household income.

    - Home-educated students typically score above average on the SAT and ACT tests that colleges consider for admissions.

    - The home-educated are doing well, typically above average, on measures of social, emotional, and psychological development. Research measures include peer interaction, self-concept, leadership skills, family cohesion, participation in community service, and self-esteem.

    - Adults who were home educated are more politically tolerant than the public schooled in the limited research done so far.

    - Homeschoolers as adults participate in local community service more frequently than does the general population,

    - Adult homschoolers go to and succeed at college at an equal or higher rate than the general population
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