Amish Salve-maker in Jail, Facing Federal Prison

Events occurring and how they relate/affect Anabaptist faith and culture.
Valerie
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Re: Amish Salve-maker in Jail, Facing Federal Prison

Post by Valerie »

lesterb wrote:
Valerie wrote: I'm sorry by sharing our friend's testimony it raised such a ruckus- I guess if you would have been in our shoes and witnessed the whole thing- you might feel different- plus losing our other dear friend, who chose chemo- maybe it is just too personal for us.
Maybe if you'd have experienced what I did, when my Mother was almost killed by listening to one of these quack doctors, you'd understand and feel different yourself. Only the intervention of genuine doctors saved her.

Like JM insinuated earlier, you can't base a science on one person's experience.

I prefer Wade's approach. Live healthy and take the best of both approaches.
I understand and agree with you Lester, but just to restate what I have said several times, our friend was not just 'one' testimony- I am sure the success rate is what caused his own 'conventional' onocologist to suggest he go to Italy- because he was aware of the 'many' testimonies. And I am sure these many testimonies is what helped a clinic to open up in Arizona with licensed doctors who use baking soda but apparently there are several approaches they use, depending on the cancer- but they will not use chemo. Chemo can & does damage other organs- just yesterday I was helping a customer at work find some sugar free "Double Bubble Gum". Why? Well thankfully her son survived leukemia! But she explained that the treatment they used at THAT time, many ended up with diabetes- which he did.
(I work at a large Ohio drugstore chain)

Again- these 'professional' doctors are not quacks but I realize there are what would be called quacks out there- but again- these naturopathics have the same education as conventional doctors (so they would not be quacks) PLUS more:

naturopathic physicians are licensed to practice medicine, and therefore do not work under or over medical doctors, unless they choose to partner together. The naturopathic medical curriculum includes all of the conventional medical doctors' curriculum plus the naturopathic modalities, so there are more than twice as many courses and more than twice as many classroom hours in naturopathic school than in conventional medical school. The way that a naturopathic physician uses baking soda includes in liquid, sterile form and is administered as medicine.

So they would have more education than any of us here discussing this-
However, I agree with you, and with Wade on considering "Both"- not sure what a naturopath doctor would have done to help my own husband who had life threatening diabetes, then kidney disease, loss of sight- etc- and his meds keep his new organs from rejecting- yet, his own doctor implies he is almost a walking miracle-
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JohnHurt
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Re: Amish Salve-maker in Jail, Facing Federal Prison

Post by JohnHurt »

Dear Valerie,

Thank you for the link to the clinic in Tempe. That is one more option I have, thanks to you. Thank you again.

Here is my story:

My Amish doctor practices Iridology, based on the work of Bernard Jensen. I really had a hard time believing that it worked, until I went to him.

All I tell him is my name, not my ailments. He precisely tells me my ailments, along with others ailments I did not know I had.

He does not charge for anything, but you can donate. In this way, he avoids a lot of problems. It is all "advice" from a Christian charity at no cost.

The last time I went, my finger joints were stiff, and I could not play the violin or piano like I wanted.

He looked into my eyes, and told me that I had a problem with my joints, and recommended a MSM Glucosamine solution that works better than any other solution available to regular health care professionals.

He also told me that he does not have any arthritis at all, due to drinking distilled water and eating fresh green beans from the garden. So, we stopped getting our drinking water from a spring, and now used distilled rain water for drinking. It really is better. I get all of the minerals I need from the food I grow in our garden.

He also told me of another problem I have that I had not discussed with anyone, and recommended saw palmetto. It was amazing that he could diagnose this, without a word from me.

Then he told me I had intestinal parasites, and recommended Para-cleanse. I used to do a lot of outdoor camping, and drank from springs, so I could have picked up something there. Or it could have been the sushi that I ate before I knew any better. But my health and energy is much better now. And I never even knew why I was tired. He really healed me.

If your dog is sick, the first thing a vet will do is to check him for parasites, and check his diet. Has your doctor ever checked you for parasites, or carefully looked at your diet? No.

Veterinary medicine has to work, or the animal is gone. One of the solutions I have tried is Corta-flex, which resolved my joint problems.

Some medicines just covers up the symptoms, or creates other symptoms, and that has become an industry. Modern medicine routinely over-prescribes pharmaceuticals to everyone.

My grandmother had a basket full of medicine bottles, and was supposed to take one pill each day from all of them. I had never seen anything like it.

And then a doctor will ask you what medications you are on, so that the new medicines they prescribe won't conflict with the old medicines you are already on. Like, they can write out a prescription on a piece of paper, but they don't have a central database that keeps up with all of the medications the various doctors have prescribed, so that you could be taking too much medicine as a hypochondriac.

Has that changed? Is there now a central database tied to the individual to keep them from over prescribing Oxycontin and other harmful drugs?

I don't think you can overdose on Chickweed salve. May God protect Simon Girod.

Also, here is another testimony.

We broke a glass in our kitchen, and I stepped on a glass sliver that lodged against a nerve. It was too small to get out. The doctor's solution was debridement, which is slicing your heel up into hamburger to look for a needle in a haystack.

So I tried to pull it out myself, no luck. Then I tried black salve, which did not work. Then I found a health forum in the UK where they had used oil of Wintergreen, which is found in Vick's Vapor Rub. The oil of Wintergreen in Vick's Vapor Rub pulled the glass sliver out of my heel in about 30 minutes. The sliver was covered in black salve.

So we now use essential oils to cure most of our ailments. Young Living and Duoterra I think are the two brands my wife buys. Oil of Frankincense is one of the most powerful oils, especially the "Sacred" Frankincense - which is even more potent. It will cure just about anything You can rub this on the bottoms of your feet for absorption, or directly on the problem. We also use Lemongrass oil for other various issues. It is much cheaper.

"Healing Oils of the Bible" by David Stewart, Ph.D. is a very good book on how to use essentials oils for healing.

We don't go to doctors anymore, as we don't get sick. We do use a Chiropractor for general wellness, and when he adjusts my neck, my sinuses will clear up immediately.

I am still praying for Simon Girod. The United Nations has something called Codex Alimentarius, which could tell us what we can use as medicine, and what is illegal, including vitamins.

We need to be able to make our own choices, and accept the responsibility for that choice. We need a free and open marketplace of ideas, with independent and impartial testing of all types of medicines.

Again, thank you for the link to the Nature Works Best clinic.

John Hurt
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Josh
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Re: Amish Salve-maker in Jail, Facing Federal Prison

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In other news Facebook suggested to me today I join the "Flat Earth and KJV" group.
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Valerie
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Re: Amish Salve-maker in Jail, Facing Federal Prison

Post by Valerie »

John I appreciate what you shared- not so long ago I would have 'maybe' taken issue with some of that- but I realize God gave so many natural ingredients to help & heal people- I'm glad you have benefited from them.

My mom's best friend had kidney cancer 16 years ago & they removed all but 1/2 of her kidney. She was put on kidney dialysis which she hated & decided to quit. The doctor told her she would die if she didn't continue. She decided to start taking Aloe vera juice & gel, and silver. For 15 years she lived without the dialysis the dr. said would 'kill' her if she quit.
She worked, took care of her daughter with MS, and her husband with Alzheimers and is now 84 and at this point, willing to go back on dialysis (at home) to continue to take care of her daughter & husband (but now has more help)
Another 'natural' way and her doctor was simply amazed, he had never seen anyone go off dialysis & live he said.

Your Amish doctor reminds me of one I met in Berlin OH, and his daughter- he had studied health for over 20 years & had a booth at the flea market in Amish Country with so many good products- they too were huge fans of aloe vera, his daughter had the most beautiful skin of anyone I ever saw- like you stated being so healthy- he said he has 6 children with wide range of ages and only 1 time did he have to take them to a doctor- for poison ivy infection that got out of control- it's saved them a great deal and they are apparently all very healthy- it was fascinating listening to him. Really it comes down to the right ingredients- there was a big sign in our area some time ago that said "Prescription Drugs are Killing Ohioans", if someone wants to make choices for themselves and avoid harmful substitutes- I understand. We sell SO MUCH acid reflux medication at work (and over time these can harm other organs). I had acid reflux years ago, and learning about aloe vera juice- taking that for a short time completely cured my acid reflux. Love it!! It can also cure irritable bowel & other benefits that I have heard testimonies of.
It's awesome you keep Mr. Girod in your prayers- I realize there's a need for FDA, but I also recognize the drugs FDA approves can harm people too- as I shared about my friend's story of antibiotics that will hopefully be banned in the future (there have been many hurt by these) so FDA is far from perfect.
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Josh
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Re: Amish Salve-maker in Jail, Facing Federal Prison

Post by Josh »

Iridology is straight up witchcraft and has absolutely no basis in any kind of fact.

If you want to choose to believe in weird, fringe stuff as your healer - fine - just stop and ask yourself why you are so committed to believing in these things.
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Judas Maccabeus
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Re: Amish Salve-maker in Jail, Facing Federal Prison

Post by Judas Maccabeus »

Josh wrote:Iridology is straight up witchcraft and has absolutely no basis in any kind of fact.

If you want to choose to believe in weird, fringe stuff as your healer - fine - just stop and ask yourself why you are so committed to believing in these things.
Yeah, just add Powowing, water witching, black boxes and the gang is all here.

I don't get it either. I have never even heard of this sort of stuff from mennonites in my church or conference. Of note, the principle advocates of this are outside of conventional anabaptist circles. Could this stuff have been more or less stamped out within the conservative mennonite church, but remains outside?

J.M.
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mike
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Re: Amish Salve-maker in Jail, Facing Federal Prison

Post by mike »

Judas Maccabeus wrote:
Josh wrote:Iridology is straight up witchcraft and has absolutely no basis in any kind of fact.

If you want to choose to believe in weird, fringe stuff as your healer - fine - just stop and ask yourself why you are so committed to believing in these things.
Yeah, just add Powowing, water witching, black boxes and the gang is all here.

I don't get it either. I have never even heard of this sort of stuff from mennonites in my church or conference. Of note, the principle advocates of this are outside of conventional anabaptist circles. Could this stuff have been more or less stamped out within the conservative mennonite church, but remains outside?

J.M.
I would guess these practices are more common in Amish and Mennonite groups that are more plain/conservative than your church, especially in old orders.
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JohnHurt
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Re: Amish Salve-maker in Jail, Facing Federal Prison

Post by JohnHurt »

mike wrote:
Judas Maccabeus wrote:
Josh wrote:Iridology is straight up witchcraft and has absolutely no basis in any kind of fact.

If you want to choose to believe in weird, fringe stuff as your healer - fine - just stop and ask yourself why you are so committed to believing in these things.
Yeah, just add Powowing, water witching, black boxes and the gang is all here.

I don't get it either. I have never even heard of this sort of stuff from mennonites in my church or conference. Of note, the principle advocates of this are outside of conventional anabaptist circles. Could this stuff have been more or less stamped out within the conservative mennonite church, but remains outside?

J.M.
I would guess these practices are more common in Amish and Mennonite groups that are more plain/conservative than your church, especially in old orders.
I really do not blame you. I could not believe in Iridology either. So I have brought several of my friends that had various ailments to this iridologist, and watched him not only diagnose their ailment, which they did not tell him, but other ailments that they had since childhood, and only known to them. Each time, I am blown away. There is no way the Iridologist could have known these issues or made this type of diagnosis if the method did not work.

I could not believe it, until I saw it happen.

Something is at work here, even if we don't fully understand how it works. It is like Semmelweis, who noticed that if a doctor would wash his hands, then disease would not be carried to the next patient. They did not understand germ theory in the 1840's, and the doctors laughed at Semmelweis. But they only scorned Semmelweis because they did not understand how it worked. But washing your hands to prevent disease does work, just the same, whether they understood it, or not.

It is very important to keep an open mind, and consider the actual results of an experiment, rather than what we think those results should be.

I have seen water dowsing for wells work too, although I do not understand how it works. Some men have this talent, other men do not. A dowser put the willow branch in my hands, and I walked over the spot and felt it move by itself. Only then, did I believe that it could work. I thought he just made it move, sub-consciously or whatever. I could not believe it, until I experienced it, so I completely understand your skepticism. You don't have to believe me, just find out for yourself. You may have this same talent, and not know it.

We all believe some men have been given abilities to perform miracles by God, that others do not have. Could dowsing be a miracle, given to certain men by God?

Jacob's Well as listed in John 4:6 is still with us today.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob%27s ... d_location

This well is 135 feet deep. How would Jacob know that there was water 135 feet below the surface of the ground?

How did Abraham know to dig his wells (Gen 26:15) exactly where there was water below the surface? Did God show him, or did he "dowse" with with a wooden stick?

Moses performed his miracles with a wooden rod before Pharaoh. This was a miracle. We easily accept that miracles happened in the past, but we reject any miracles that may be happening today.

Could it be, that if God would grant us miracles today, that it would be in the form of finding water, or healing the sick?

Or are we like the doctors that ridiculed Semmelweis, before we knew all of the answers.

Anyway, I know what I have seen, and although I don't understand it, I do have first hand knowledge.

And you can laugh at me, but I am still going to wash my hands. And I am thankful for my Amish doctor who diagnosed me with Iridology, and healed me with herbal medicines. So I don't want to lose my access to herbal medicines, or Iridology.

So, I did sign the petition at Change.org for Simon Girod. And I will be growing Aloe Vera plants here this summer, based on Valerie's comments and other information I have.

My prayer is for all men. And I pray that those who don't believe as I do, that they would not prevent me from finding what I need for my health. I will be responsible for myself, hopefully without interference.

Blessings to you.

John
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Bootstrap
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Re: Amish Salve-maker in Jail, Facing Federal Prison

Post by Bootstrap »

So how do you know?

I can give you long lists of things people have taken for health, accompanied by glowing testimonials. Many of these turned out to be actively harmful, others have not been shown to have any benefit. But each has its advocates.

I like to think we should use the same standards for all medications, whether they come from a pharmacist, an herbalist, or somewhere else. I like double-blind clinical trials, for instance.

There are really several things you need to know - (1) does it have a clear medical effect? (2) what side effects does it have? (3) how does it compare to other possible solutions?

If it can hurt you and it just might help you, there's not much harm in trying something and seeing if it works for you. On the other hand, if you sell something advertised as a drug, you have to register with the FDA, and you have to demonstrate that it works and causes no harm. I suspect we rarely know what is actually going on in cases like this, we aren't that close to it, and I will not claim to know anything at all about what he is or is not doing. But if he is advertising this as a drug, he has to follow the laws we have for drugs. And if he claims that what he sells contains chickweed or bloodroot, and it does not, that would be false advertising.

This FAQ is useful:

American Hebalist's Guild: Legal and Regulatory FAQs
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Re: Amish Salve-maker in Jail, Facing Federal Prison

Post by ken_sylvania »

JohnHurt wrote: We all believe some men have been given abilities to perform miracles by God, that others do not have. Could dowsing be a miracle, given to certain men by God?
Could dowsing be a miracle, given to certain men by the devil, the father of lies? The testimonies of men who were formerly involved in this type of witchcraft who lost their "abilities" after turning their lives over to God makes me skeptical that dowsing is "of God."
JohnHurt wrote: Jacob's Well as listed in John 4:6 is still with us today.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob%27s ... d_location

This well is 135 feet deep. How would Jacob know that there was water 135 feet below the surface of the ground?

How did Abraham know to dig his wells (Gen 26:15) exactly where there was water below the surface? Did God show him, or did he "dowse" with with a wooden stick?
Maybe he did as many other people have done over the years - observe the natural features of the land and dig where he felt was a likely spot for water. Your implication that finding water requires a supernatural revelation is absurd.
JohnHurt wrote: Moses performed his miracles with a wooden rod before Pharaoh. This was a miracle. We easily accept that miracles happened in the past, but we reject any miracles that may be happening today.
Jannes and Jambres also performed miracles before Pharaoh. The effect was to harden Pharaoh's heart. We had best beware lest our hearts are deceived by Satan's miracles.

Semmelweis' theory performed under scrutiny. For some reason, dowsing and iridology don't work in the laboratory. It is worthwhile to consider why that might be.
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