Amish Salve-maker in Jail, Facing Federal Prison

Events occurring and how they relate/affect Anabaptist faith and culture.
Josh
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Re: Amish Salve-maker in Jail, Facing Federal Prison

Postby Josh » Fri Feb 17, 2017 6:09 am

Exactly what snake oil requires a prescription?
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temporal1
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Re: Amish Salve-maker in Jail, Facing Federal Prison

Postby temporal1 » Fri Feb 17, 2017 6:38 am

Josh wrote:Exactly what snake oil requires a prescription?
i tend to be sensitive to .. lots of things, i'm not alone. i can't use most products with perfumes, like lotions, etc. but, this extends to prescription meds, too. lipitor caused me to develop erythema nodosum, it took months to be rid of it. i was fortunate, the doctor warned it could take a year or two.

my son was in college, he took an "innocuous" antibiotic for acne, developed a painful reaction that mimicked severe rheumatoid arthritis, had to see an RA specialist, was prescribed dangerous RA drugs, they did nothing, but could cause liver damage .. eventually, he figured out, on his own, the antibiotic was the culprit .. he returned to his doctor, the doctor readily agreed, prescribed a different med for him.

we are very cautious about all potions, OTC, and prescribed.
some prescriptions are recalled, after "so much" damage or death is recorded.
these amount to big class-action lawsuits.

it sure seems to me, the general public is used more+more as a testing lab for lots of prescription drugs. drugs are put out there, damage control follows. legal snake oils.

a great challenge is figuring out the connection between the symptom and the cause.

in each case (in my family) .. diagnosis has taken time!
doctors are not very good at connecting unusual or rare symptoms with prescribed drugs. in my son's case, they failed, he eventually figured it out on his own. who would connect an ordinary antibiotic with crippling symptoms of RA in an otherwise healthy young college student?! .. but, in the fine print of possible reactions: there it was!

if the doctors had been on top of it, he could have been saved those visits to the specialist, and the additional scary drugs.
Last edited by temporal1 on Fri Feb 17, 2017 6:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joy
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Re: Amish Salve-maker in Jail, Facing Federal Prison

Postby Joy » Fri Feb 17, 2017 6:48 am

Josh wrote:Exactly what snake oil requires a prescription?


Some prescriptions of yesteryear's mainstream medicine. And I expect the cycle continues, so that some of today's will be eventually banned.

As a child I was prescribed a mercury lotion for skin fungus. Not good.
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Wayne in Maine
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Re: Amish Salve-maker in Jail, Facing Federal Prison

Postby Wayne in Maine » Fri Feb 17, 2017 6:50 am

Josh wrote:I think truth objectively exists, so we can make a statement like "drinking bottled raw petroleum doesn't cure a variety of illnesses". And as Christians the truth is important to us.

Submission to the government is important too. So if they tell me something unreasonable, I do my best to submit to it, just like we expect a wife to do for her husband.

For some reason some of us plain folk are really good at the latter part (wives submitting to husbands) but really bad at the former part (submitting to the government when doing so gets in the way of profit).

The love of money is the root of all kinds of evil.
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temporal1
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Re: Amish Salve-maker in Jail, Facing Federal Prison

Postby temporal1 » Fri Feb 17, 2017 6:56 am

Joy wrote:
Josh wrote:Exactly what snake oil requires a prescription?
Some prescriptions of yesteryear's mainstream medicine. And I expect the cycle continues, so that some of today's will be eventually banned.

As a child I was prescribed a mercury lotion for skin fungus. Not good.
already happening, Joy.
today, stats are kept on damage+death, class action lawsuits follow.
it seems drug companies are like credit card companies: they factor in their potential financial loss, and just go ahead and distribute. legally, of course.
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Josh
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Re: Amish Salve-maker in Jail, Facing Federal Prison

Postby Josh » Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:45 am

temporal1 wrote:already happening, Joy.
today, stats are kept on damage+death, class action lawsuits follow.
it seems drug companies are like credit card companies: they factor in their potential financial loss, and just go ahead and distribute. legally, of course.


What else could we do? The only other option is more government regulation. Pharma is already very heavily regulated, to the point researching new drugs and bringing them to market costs billions of dollars.
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temporal1
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Re: Amish Salve-maker in Jail, Facing Federal Prison

Postby temporal1 » Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:09 am

Josh wrote:
temporal1 wrote:already happening, Joy.
today, stats are kept on damage+death, class action lawsuits follow.
it seems drug companies are like credit card companies: they factor in their potential financial loss, and just go ahead and distribute. legally, of course.
What else could we do? The only other option is more government regulation. Pharma is already very heavily regulated, to the point researching new drugs and bringing them to market costs billions of dollars.
i have no answers. i just try to keep my eyes open when trying anything new, OTC, or Rx.
part of the billions goes to settling lawsuits.

i sometimes wonder what impact PETA has had on all this? -
are humans now used more frequently in place of lab-rats? i do not know.

there might be a little more recognition that Girod isn't really so "off the mark" as is presumed.
he just isn't a lawyer.
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appleman2006
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Re: Amish Salve-maker in Jail, Facing Federal Prison

Postby appleman2006 » Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:52 am

I imagine that Amish man is feeling persecuted for being a small businessman and he just wants to be left alone to do his own thing which he thinks will never actually hurt anybody.
But here is the thing. If there were no regulations in these areas I am betting that his product would barely see the light of day as there would be tons of large companies doing something similar to what he his doing. In fact the market would probably be so full of these products that people would hardly notice his. Or the alternative may have happened which is just as likely if not more so.

The sheer volume of these products on the market would of already either proved that they do not really work or in some cases have even harmed people and so people may have learned to be really leery of this type of thing.

If you have a natural alternative health product that really is as great as you say it is then go through the regular legal means of marketing it. And if it really does work you will be wealthy beyond your wildest dreams if that is what you dream about. If what you dream about is just helping people you will have the ability to actually help far more people than you do now.
There are no short cuts to success and I am not sure that there should be.
On a side note I wish they would go after some of the MLM health products that are out there with the same amount of diligence.
Running for cover and no I am not sorry for saying it.
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Heirbyadoption
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Re: Amish Salve-maker in Jail, Facing Federal Prison

Postby Heirbyadoption » Fri Feb 17, 2017 9:13 am

On a side note I wish they would go after some of the MLM health products that are out there with the same amount of diligence.
Clearly you haven't read their quotes, and the doctors listed who endorse each product... 8-) Your wish is a sound principle, imho, although certainly a little general deregulation wouldn't hurt either in many areas.
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temporal1
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Re: Amish Salve-maker in Jail, Facing Federal Prison

Postby temporal1 » Fri Feb 17, 2017 9:14 am

appleman2006 wrote:I imagine that Amish man is feeling persecuted for being a small businessman and he just wants to be left alone to do his own thing which he thinks will never actually hurt anybody.
But here is the thing. If there were no regulations in these areas I am betting that his product would barely see the light of day as there would be tons of large companies doing something similar to what he his doing. In fact the market would probably be so full of these products that people would hardly notice his. Or the alternative may have happened which is just as likely if not more so.

The sheer volume of these products on the market would of already either proved that they do not really work or in some cases have even harmed people and so people may have learned to be really leery of this type of thing.

If you have a natural alternative health product that really is as great as you say it is then go through the regular legal means of marketing it. And if it really does work you will be wealthy beyond your wildest dreams if that is what you dream about. If what you dream about is just helping people you will have the ability to actually help far more people than you do now.
There are no short cuts to success and I am not sure that there should be.
On a side note I wish they would go after some of the MLM health products that are out there with the same amount of diligence.
Running for cover and no I am not sorry for saying it.
i'm not sure anyone is suggesting no regulations?
aside from that, i agree with you, to a degree.

you left out the parts like, those with highly successful/profitable trearments buying out competitors, not to offer better products, but to keep competing products off the market; also, laws tweaked by lobbyists to make things harder for competition; also, politicians personally invested in certain products; and, the power of money to affect medical "science."

recently, my doctor just told me, powerful entities have been buying up rights/ownership of generic drugs/devices in order to increase prices exponentially - the opposite of the notion of generic products. there was a big scandal last summer with epi-pens.

as Wayne stated above, "The love of money is the root of all kinds of evil."

in my view, Girod's problem revolves around ignorance of the legal system.
the product is likely allowable - provided the required legal hoops are jumped.
i.e., it's more about law than medicine.

as i understand it, those with double degrees in law and medicine are very well paid.
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