Amish Salve-maker in Jail, Facing Federal Prison

Events occurring and how they relate/affect Anabaptist faith and culture.
User avatar
JimFoxvog
Posts: 2891
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:56 pm
Location: Northern Illinois
Affiliation: MCUSA

Re: Amish Salve-maker in Jail, Facing Federal Prison

Post by JimFoxvog »

Josh wrote:The Constitution declares slaves to be worth 3/5ths of a free person and it also made the institution of slavery permanent.

The U.S. Constitution is an anti-Christian, anti-Kingdom, anti-Jesus document.
As most human documents, the Constitution is mixed, some good, some bad.

The 3/5 clause is not about what slaves are worth; that was up to the free market. It is about counting for determining how many representatives a state has. Indians not taxed were not counted at all.

By making slavery permanent, do you mean as punishment for crimes?
"Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction."
0 x
User avatar
JohnHurt
Posts: 823
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:04 pm
Location: Buffalo Valley, TN
Affiliation: Primitive Christian
Contact:

Re: Amish Salve-maker in Jail, Facing Federal Prison

Post by JohnHurt »

Judas Maccabeus wrote:
John:

Are you sure you don't hold these kind of views yourself. Jury nullification is one of the "pillars" of this movement. The local "Sovereign Citizen" group distributes a jury handbook encouraging this. They have infiltrated, and in one case almost taken over one of the evangelical churches near here.

I am not all that concerned about the "constitution. The Bible is the constitution of the life I have taken up, with Jesus as my Lord. We live in obedience to Him. And sometimes we die. Anabaptism has a theology of martyrdom in it.

Dean Taylor did an excellent video on this subject, entitled "What If." If you are really interested in Anabaptist theology, you may want to take a look.

You are aware that no one rules except by God's permission. We are to obey them as much as we can, both good and bad. When Paul was giving his instructions, he had Rome in mind. Can't get much worse than that.

J.M.
You have a lot of good points, and I appreciate our discussion.

Jury nullification goes back to the Magna Carta of 1215, and was used successfully in the trials of the 16th and 17th centuries:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_nullification

Jury nullification is one our last defenses against judicial tyranny. (No, I am not a "Sovereign Citizen", I belong to God.)

Romans 13 specifically states that "rulers are not a terror to good works". Yet Christians were persecuted by Rome for their good works. So Romans 13 cannot be talking about Rome, as it was a terror to good works.

Romans 13 states that the rulers are "a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil." Yet every form of evil, such as adultery, fornication, pedophilia, murder - was sanctioned by the Roman government, just as abortion is sanctioned by our own government today. Abortion and these other sins, they are "evil". So Romans 13 cannot be speaking of Rome or our governments today, because these governments are not a revenger against those that do evil.

The only way to apply Romans 13 to government is to call evil good, and good evil. (Isaiah 5:20) Romans 13 may be speaking of a "higher power", but if read carefully, few if any governments would qualify in the description given.

Our relationship to government should be determined by the entire Bible, not by the statements of one writer.

Here are some examples of how the men of God related to their government, when told to obey: (I will let you read the context):

When their government told them to stop preaching:
Acts 4:(19) But Peter and John answered and said unto them, Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye.

When told a second time:
Acts 5:(29) Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

When Stephen was speaking to the government ministers:

Acts 7:(51) Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

(52) Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:

Remember the Egyptian midwives, who lied to their government?

Exodus 1:(21) And it came to pass, because the midwives feared God, that he made them houses.

Or when the people desired a King to rule over them:

1 Samuel 8:(7) And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.

God wants us to follow him, not man's government.

And you are correct, the Bible is our supreme guide. If we consider the intention of Biblical law in the first 5 books of the Bible, there is no principle of using incarceration in a jail as punishment, only restitution. If a thief stole an animal or money, he had to give back twice what was stolen (Exodus 22:4, 7). If someone accidentally destroyed property, they would have to make restitution of whatever was destroyed (Exodus 22:6).

Incarceration could only for a short time, while the sentence was being determined. (Leviticus 24:12).

Incarceration does not "correct" anyone, it usually makes matters worse. (I did a prison ministry for several years and saw few, if any "correction" of the inmates.)

And if a sentence is overturned at a later date, and a person had been fined, that fine can be restored. But the years spent in prison from a sentence that was overturned can never be given back to a man.

With homosexual rape being something that occurs regularly in prison with no punishment of the guilty, any stay in prison by a Christian is cruel and unusual punishment.

And other cruelties happen in prison. Remember the Hutterite boys, Michael and Joseph Hofer, how they were "high handcuffed" to their cell doors so they could not sit down, and fed bread and water for days, all for not fighting in WWI?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_and_Michael_Hofer

I find the Biblical law much more reasonable, in that Samuel Girod should not be incarcerated, but only have repay any damages he created. And there were no damages. So there was no crime, other than not letting the FDA into his home.

And the real problem with this case is that Samuel operated his business out of his private home. While the FDA may inspect businesses, this is different with a private home, as the home is protected from "unreasonable search and seizures" by the 4th Amendment. To inspect Mr. Girod's private residence, every inspection should require a judge to sign a warrant for what was to be searched, but only based on "probable cause":

4th Amendment:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Even the "curtilage", which is his yard and the buildings immediately surrounding his home, could not be searched without a proper warrant, signed by a judge:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtilage

The way I understand the case, the Judge gave an open ended injunction that Mr. Girod's home could be searched at anytime by the FDA. That clearly violates the 4th Amendment. At least Mr. Girod did not use the Castle doctrine.

I have worked with our Law enforcement as a computer technician, and our law enforcement men are some of the bravest and greatest protectors of the peace and tranquility of our nation (and this is not something I could ever do). But the same cannot be said for our legal system.

Our judges, prosecutors, and lawyers - it is a game for them. If you don't know how to play the game, you go to their jail. They put burdens on the backs of poor people they don't even lift with their finger. 6 years for Chickweed salve is ridiculous.

And if this case was overturned a year from now, how would Samuel Girod get his year in jail back? He couldn't.

But one answer would be to put the judge and prosecutor in jail, even just for 30 days, to show them the gravity and tragedy of their own actions. Putting a non-violent person in a cage accomplishes nothing. But putting a judge and prosecutor in their own jail would set a very good precedent. The inmates would love them.

I would not want anyone in jail, but the crime of the judge and prosecutor in taking away 6 years of a man's life is a much greater crime than exaggerating the claims of Chickweed salve, or not letting someone enter your home.

The judge and prosecutor at the very least need to be disbarred, and encouraged to work and actually produce something, and not live off other people as they do now. If they had to work for a living, even if just for a short while, they would be less likely to disdain those that do work.

Very nice talking to you.

John
0 x
"He replaced the teachings of Christ with his own opinions, and gave us a religion based on the doctrines of men."
Judas Maccabeus
Posts: 3881
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 11:13 am
Location: Maryland
Affiliation: Con. Menno.

Re: Amish Salve-maker in Jail, Facing Federal Prison

Post by Judas Maccabeus »

JohnHurt wrote:
Judas Maccabeus wrote:
John:

Are you sure you don't hold these kind of views yourself. Jury nullification is one of the "pillars" of this movement. The local "Sovereign Citizen" group distributes a jury handbook encouraging this. They have infiltrated, and in one case almost taken over one of the evangelical churches near here.

I am not all that concerned about the "constitution. The Bible is the constitution of the life I have taken up, with Jesus as my Lord. We live in obedience to Him. And sometimes we die. Anabaptism has a theology of martyrdom in it.

Dean Taylor did an excellent video on this subject, entitled "What If." If you are really interested in Anabaptist theology, you may want to take a look.

You are aware that no one rules except by God's permission. We are to obey them as much as we can, both good and bad. When Paul was giving his instructions, he had Rome in mind. Can't get much worse than that.

J.M.
You have a lot of good points, and I appreciate our discussion.

Jury nullification goes back to the Magna Carta of 1215, and was used successfully in the trials of the 16th and 17th centuries:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_nullification

Jury nullification is one our last defenses against judicial tyranny. (No, I am not a "Sovereign Citizen", I belong to God.)

Romans 13 specifically states that "rulers are not a terror to good works". Yet Christians were persecuted by Rome for their good works. So Romans 13 cannot be talking about Rome, as it was a terror to good works.

Romans 13 states that the rulers are "a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil." Yet every form of evil, such as adultery, fornication, pedophilia, murder - was sanctioned by the Roman government, just as abortion is sanctioned by our own government today. Abortion and these other sins, they are "evil". So Romans 13 cannot be speaking of Rome or our governments today, because these governments are not a revenger against those that do evil.

The only way to apply Romans 13 to government is to call evil good, and good evil. (Isaiah 5:20) Romans 13 may be speaking of a "higher power", but if read carefully, few if any governments would qualify in the description given.

Our relationship to government should be determined by the entire Bible, not by the statements of one writer.

Here are some examples of how the men of God related to their government, when told to obey: (I will let you read the context):

When their government told them to stop preaching:
Acts 4:(19) But Peter and John answered and said unto them, Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye.

When told a second time:
Acts 5:(29) Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

When Stephen was speaking to the government ministers:

Acts 7:(51) Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

(52) Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:

Remember the Egyptian midwives, who lied to their government?

Exodus 1:(21) And it came to pass, because the midwives feared God, that he made them houses.

Or when the people desired a King to rule over them:

1 Samuel 8:(7) And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.

God wants us to follow him, not man's government.

And you are correct, the Bible is our supreme guide. If we consider the intention of Biblical law in the first 5 books of the Bible, there is no principle of using incarceration in a jail as punishment, only restitution. If a thief stole an animal or money, he had to give back twice what was stolen (Exodus 22:4, 7). If someone accidentally destroyed property, they would have to make restitution of whatever was destroyed (Exodus 22:6).

Incarceration could only for a short time, while the sentence was being determined. (Leviticus 24:12).

Incarceration does not "correct" anyone, it usually makes matters worse. (I did a prison ministry for several years and saw few, if any "correction" of the inmates.)

And if a sentence is overturned at a later date, and a person had been fined, that fine can be restored. But the years spent in prison from a sentence that was overturned can never be given back to a man.

With homosexual rape being something that occurs regularly in prison with no punishment of the guilty, any stay in prison by a Christian is cruel and unusual punishment.

And other cruelties happen in prison. Remember the Hutterite boys, Michael and Joseph Hofer, how they were "high handcuffed" to their cell doors so they could not sit down, and fed bread and water for days, all for not fighting in WWI?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_and_Michael_Hofer

I find the Biblical law much more reasonable, in that Samuel Girod should not be incarcerated, but only have repay any damages he created. And there were no damages. So there was no crime, other than not letting the FDA into his home.

And the real problem with this case is that Samuel operated his business out of his private home. While the FDA may inspect businesses, this is different with a private home, as the home is protected from "unreasonable search and seizures" by the 4th Amendment. To inspect Mr. Girod's private residence, every inspection should require a judge to sign a warrant for what was to be searched, but only based on "probable cause":

4th Amendment:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Even the "curtilage", which is his yard and the buildings immediately surrounding his home, could not be searched without a proper warrant, signed by a judge:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtilage

The way I understand the case, the Judge gave an open ended injunction that Mr. Girod's home could be searched at anytime by the FDA. That clearly violates the 4th Amendment. At least Mr. Girod did not use the Castle doctrine.

I have worked with our Law enforcement as a computer technician, and our law enforcement men are some of the bravest and greatest protectors of the peace and tranquility of our nation (and this is not something I could ever do). But the same cannot be said for our legal system.

Our judges, prosecutors, and lawyers - it is a game for them. If you don't know how to play the game, you go to their jail. They put burdens on the backs of poor people they don't even lift with their finger. 6 years for Chickweed salve is ridiculous.

And if this case was overturned a year from now, how would Samuel Girod get his year in jail back? He couldn't.

But one answer would be to put the judge and prosecutor in jail, even just for 30 days, to show them the gravity and tragedy of their own actions. Putting a non-violent person in a cage accomplishes nothing. But putting a judge and prosecutor in their own jail would set a very good precedent. The inmates would love them.

I would not want anyone in jail, but the crime of the judge and prosecutor in taking away 6 years of a man's life is a much greater crime than exaggerating the claims of Chickweed salve, or not letting someone enter your home.

The judge and prosecutor at the very least need to be disbarred, and encouraged to work and actually produce something, and not live off other people as they do now. If they had to work for a living, even if just for a short while, they would be less likely to disdain those that do work.

Very nice talking to you.

John
It is not about the salve. It is about defying the government. How do you expect our government (Which is totally based on power over people, just like all governments) to respond? Look, I likely think the US government is as corrupt as you do. I just refuse to render evil for evil. (! These 5:16) And I will turn the other cheek (Matt 5:39). This is the way of Jesus, and this is the way that other of the Anabaptist faith will walk, or at least try to.

I am well aware of the Hofer brothers. On their tombstone, below their name is inscribed "Martyr." If it comes to that, I hope, with God's help, I die as well.

J.M.
0 x
:hug:
ken_sylvania
Posts: 3975
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:46 pm
Affiliation: CM

Re: Amish Salve-maker in Jail, Facing Federal Prison

Post by ken_sylvania »

JohnHurt wrote: Jury nullification goes back to the Magna Carta of 1215, and was used successfully in the trials of the 16th and 17th centuries:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_nullification
Jury nullification is one our last defenses against judicial tyranny. (No, I am not a "Sovereign Citizen", I belong to God.)
You might be aware that in the 18th century the 13 colonies (which formed the United States) gained independence from Great Britain. US Law now has precedence. Magna Carta, etc. were British.

It might also interest you, considering your high appreciation for the US Constitution, that the concept of jury nullification has been appealed all the way the to the Supreme Court, which was established by the Constitution as the ultimate arbiter of US Law. The Supreme Court held in 1895 that judges have no obligation to inform juries about jury nullification.
JohnHurt wrote: And you are correct, the Bible is our supreme guide. If we consider the intention of Biblical law in the first 5 books of the Bible, there is no principle of using incarceration in a jail as punishment, only restitution. If a thief stole an animal or money, he had to give back twice what was stolen (Exodus 22:4, 7). If someone accidentally destroyed property, they would have to make restitution of whatever was destroyed (Exodus 22:6).

Incarceration could only for a short time, while the sentence was being determined. (Leviticus 24:12).

Incarceration does not "correct" anyone, it usually makes matters worse. (I did a prison ministry for several years and saw few, if any "correction" of the inmates.)

And if a sentence is overturned at a later date, and a person had been fined, that fine can be restored. But the years spent in prison from a sentence that was overturned can never be given back to a man.
Your statement that only restitution was available as a punishment in the Pentateuch is incorrect. The OT punishment for being stubborn and rebellious was death. The punishment for accidentally killing another person was imprisonment in a city of refuge (low security prison) until the high priest died. Exodus 22:3 provides for slavery as a punishment. The punishment for rape was death. I believe you would have to agree that it is easier to compensate a person for having been imprisoned in error than to compensate him for having been executed in error.

John, have you taken the time to actually read the case files from this trial? Your characterization of Mr. Girod as a peace loving man who got caught up in the cogs of justice through no fault of his own just plain doesn't match what he says in his filings. In his filings he portrays himself as an aggressive, rebellious man who is unwilling to submit to anyone but himself.

When a man sets himself up as a king, he can expect that the government he is setting himself up against will attempt to suppress the insurrection. That's what happened here. Maybe 'till another time he can consider beforehand "whether he be able, with ten thousand, to meet him that comes against him with twenty thousand."
0 x
User avatar
ohio jones
Posts: 5222
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:23 pm
Location: undisclosed
Affiliation: Rosedale Network

Re: Amish Salve-maker in Jail, Facing Federal Prison

Post by ohio jones »

ken_sylvania wrote:The OT punishment for being stubborn and rebellious was death.
In that context, six years seems excessively lenient rather than ridiculously harsh. But it does provide an opportunity for repentance.
0 x
I grew up around Indiana, You grew up around Galilee; And if I ever really do grow up, I wanna grow up to be just like You -- Rich Mullins

I am a Christian and my name is Pilgram; I'm on a journey, but I'm not alone -- NewSong, slightly edited
User avatar
JohnHurt
Posts: 823
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:04 pm
Location: Buffalo Valley, TN
Affiliation: Primitive Christian
Contact:

Re: Amish Salve-maker in Jail, Facing Federal Prison

Post by JohnHurt »

There is now a YouTube video that is going viral about this case, it was published yesterday (July 4th), and is well over 100,000 views in just one day.



Also, Samuel and his wife have left the Amish community as of 2012, and their story is at this link:

http://www.mapministry.org/about/meet-t ... olly-girod

http://www.mapministry.org/news/2013/01/10/samuel-girod

Whether you agree with Samuel's call to be a missionary to the Amish people, this information does paint a different picture of Samuel's character than what was stated by the Judge and Prosecutor.

I am certain we have only heard one side of this story.

I pray for his family and young children. And anyone else that sells herbal medicine.
0 x
"He replaced the teachings of Christ with his own opinions, and gave us a religion based on the doctrines of men."
ken_sylvania
Posts: 3975
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:46 pm
Affiliation: CM

Re: Amish Salve-maker in Jail, Facing Federal Prison

Post by ken_sylvania »

JohnHurt wrote:There is now a YouTube video that is going viral about this case, it was published yesterday (July 4th), and is well over 100,000 views in just one day.



Also, Samuel and his wife have left the Amish community as of 2012, and their story is at this link:

http://www.mapministry.org/about/meet-t ... olly-girod

http://www.mapministry.org/news/2013/01/10/samuel-girod

Whether you agree with Samuel's call to be a missionary to the Amish people, this information does paint a different picture of Samuel's character than what was stated by the Judge and Prosecutor.

I am certain we have only heard one side of this story.

I pray for his family and young children. And anyone else that sells herbal medicine.
Are you sure this is the same person?

The links you provided talk about a Samuel Girod who moved from Indiana to Ohio in September, 2012 and then married later that year. "Samuel, house of Girod" from KY is said to have 12 children and 25 grandchildren. That's an awful lot of children and grandchildren to collect over a period of less than five years. :D :D
0 x
User avatar
JohnHurt
Posts: 823
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:04 pm
Location: Buffalo Valley, TN
Affiliation: Primitive Christian
Contact:

Re: Amish Salve-maker in Jail, Facing Federal Prison

Post by JohnHurt »

ken_sylvania wrote:Are you sure this is the same person?

The links you provided talk about a Samuel Girod who moved from Indiana to Ohio in September, 2012 and then married later that year. "Samuel, house of Girod" from KY is said to have 12 children and 25 grandchildren. That's an awful lot of children and grandchildren to collect over a period of less than five years. :D :D
I think you are right, there are no real pictures of the elder Samuel Girod, so the press has the wrong picture. Here is what I think is the correct picture:

https://www.policearrests.com/arrests/s ... 51291.html

They apparently have the picture of his son.

ZeroHedge - which is a very well known online news source, picked up his case, and gave some more details about how it got started:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-06-2 ... nald-trump

If you read the ZeroHedge article, Mr. Girod first crossed the path of the FDA in 2001 because he had claims on his labels that the product was "good for skin cancer, poison ivy, etc." These labels were changed.

In 2013, the customer made a complaint against Mr. Girod's products, but later, this customer could not be found.

The judge made an injunction that Mr. Girod change his labels, the customer reviews on his brochures, and that he never sell the bloodroot salve again, and that his home could be inspected at any time.

Mr. Girod did comply with everything requested by the judge, with the exception of the warrantless searches of his private home. That is the basis of the case.

The Bath County Sheriff was present when the FDA was on Mr. Girod's property. And it was the Bath County Sheriff that ran the FDA agents off the property, not Mr. Girod.

Here is an article that relates Judge Danny C. Reeves relationship to Mitch McConnell, and Big Pharma:

http://www.takingbackjustice.com/sam-girod.html

Our family uses a LOT of herbal remedies, as do our friends. If this decision stands, it sets a precedent for more than just Mr. Girod and his family.

Danny C. Reeves needs to be disbarred and have work a real job that produces more than just misery for other people. What a monster!
0 x
"He replaced the teachings of Christ with his own opinions, and gave us a religion based on the doctrines of men."
ken_sylvania
Posts: 3975
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:46 pm
Affiliation: CM

Re: Amish Salve-maker in Jail, Facing Federal Prison

Post by ken_sylvania »

JohnHurt wrote:Danny C. Reeves needs to be disbarred and have work a real job that produces more than just misery for other people. What a monster!
Hold on. What does the constitution say again about the right to a fair trial by a jury of one's peers?

Haven't you just judged Danny C. Reeves as a monster based on the barest of allegations? Have you done a more thorough job of fact-checking these latest links than you did the previous sources you provided?

The info provided by ZeroHedge is basically a cut&paste of Sally Oh's article in the Kentucky Free Press. Unfortunately, Sally Oh has demonstrated that she cannot be trusted to tell the truth. Her articles are full of inaccuracies, suppositions, and outright fabrications.
JohnHurt wrote:Mr. Girod did comply with everything requested by the judge, with the exception of the warrantless searches of his private home. That is the basis of the case.

The Bath County Sheriff was present when the FDA was on Mr. Girod's property. And it was the Bath County Sheriff that ran the FDA agents off the property, not Mr. Girod.
Have you read the judge's injunction? The injunction forbade Mr. Girod from selling any of his salves until the FDA verified his compliance with labeling rules, along with a number of other items. To state that he complied with everything except the searches is ridiculous - he was ignoring the prohibition on selling his product across state lines. In fact, he went so far as to send letters to the FDA that basically said "I'm selling my product across state lines but you can't do anything about it." This is not Christlike behavior.

Have you even read the case files yet yourself? That would be a really good place to start to educate yourself about what actually happened. Read what the prosecutors have to say, along with Girod's responses. Add in the testimony provided in court by witnesses and you will get a lot better idea of truth than you are likely to obtain by reading quasi-journalistic sites like ZeroHedge and KentuckyFreePress.

It's not necessarily wrong to be mistaken, unless we are mistaken because we don't care about the truth. Unfortunately, John, it appears to me like in this case you don't really care about the truth, but you are immediately accepting the narrative that fits your anti-government world view. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the volume of easily dis-proven statements suggests a failure to vet the information before posting it.

As Christians, we have a responsibility to speak the truth. Let's all please do that.
0 x
RZehr
Posts: 7029
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 12:42 am
Affiliation: Cons. Mennonite

Re: Amish Salve-maker in Jail, Facing Federal Prison

Post by RZehr »

John it seems to me that you are not being fair with this case. It seems to me that since you are sympathetic to Sam, you ignore the core of the charge -mislabeling-, and want to focus on all the peripheral matter. This is a legal issue, so it is right that it is legalistic. I don't think you would take this approach on if the issue was something you agreed with.
0 x
Post Reply