Trump Wars

Events occurring and how they relate/affect Anabaptist faith and culture.
Haystack
Posts: 124
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:43 pm

Re: Trump Wars

Postby Haystack » Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:20 am

temporal1 wrote:some members have described they formerly had addictions to politics. :(
i wondered, if having political discussions on this forum might be similar to drinking alcohol in the presence of former alcoholics? .. if this is the case, then, shame on us. (i'm not sure, and, not my decision.)


If this is the case, then I feel bad for those who suffer from it. I noticed that it doesn't matter how closed off a person is, you can't go a day without hearing something about Trump or politics in general. Going to the store, work, walking down the street, news paper, internet, etc.. people are talking about it and it's impossible to escape. I'm not one to partake in political discussions, and lately I'm quite bothered by it. I don't see things settling down anytime soon unfortunately.
2 x

temporal1
Posts: 1505
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:09 pm
Affiliation: less than the least

Re: Trump Wars

Postby temporal1 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:56 am

Haystack wrote:
temporal1 wrote:some members have described they formerly had addictions to politics. :(
i wondered, if having political discussions on this forum might be similar to drinking alcohol in the presence of former alcoholics? .. if this is the case, then, shame on us. (i'm not sure, and, not my decision.)
If this is the case, then I feel bad for those who suffer from it. I noticed that it doesn't matter how closed off a person is, you can't go a day without hearing something about Trump or politics in general. Going to the store, work, walking down the street, news paper, internet, etc.. people are talking about it and it's impossible to escape. I'm not one to partake in political discussions, and lately I'm quite bothered by it. I don't see things settling down anytime soon unfortunately.
o.my.goodness. welcome back. :D
you've been missed.
while you've been away, i have been limiting my daily post-count. it's much better. :blah:

there is a thread on addictions, it was discussed on MD, too.
i'm not sure if anyone has specifically discussed political addictions on MN; often, it was mentioned in the text of another topic. there are some common denominators for various addictions, tho.
How to Overcome Addictions
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=139&hilit=addictions
scriptures warn us not to be stumbling blocks. it's something to think about.
1 Corinthians 8:9
But be careful that this right of yours in no way becomes a stumbling block to the weak.
i will pray for you to find some peace on this. my life is pretty isolated, i've removed nearly all political noise, but i realize not all may be able to do as i have.

do take comfort in knowing, none of our problems is too great for God. no matter outward appearances. i do not discount what you may be facing.
1 x
formerly Temporal1

“The past is never dead. It's not even past.”
William Faulkner, Requiem for a Nun

Bootstrap
Posts: 2305
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:59 am
Affiliation: Kingdom Christian

Re: Trump Wars

Postby Bootstrap » Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:44 am

mike wrote:Stay out of such discussions.


But I think we need more than that. I think we need to actively discuss how we relate to politicized warring around us, because a large portion of the church is paralyzed by it. And I think we need to - carefully - examine ourselves and question each other about our own political warring.

I'd guess that this is at least as common a problem as sexual immorality. And while staying away from sexual immorality is important, if the church is full of it, it's not enough for an individual to stay out of it. The culture of the church needs to be changed. We need to build an understanding of why sexual immorality is wrong.

The same is true for political warring.
1 x
Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?

Bootstrap
Posts: 2305
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:59 am
Affiliation: Kingdom Christian

Re: Trump Wars

Postby Bootstrap » Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:54 am

Haystack wrote:If this is the case, then I feel bad for those who suffer from it. I noticed that it doesn't matter how closed off a person is, you can't go a day without hearing something about Trump or politics in general. Going to the store, work, walking down the street, news paper, internet, etc.. people are talking about it and it's impossible to escape. I'm not one to partake in political discussions, and lately I'm quite bothered by it. I don't see things settling down anytime soon unfortunately.


I think we have to start by realizing that the entire world does not revolve around Donald Trump. He's just the president of the United States. And whether he succeeds or fails, the country will continue. He's neither God nor Satan. As president, we should respect him and pray for him.

And maybe we can begin by realizing that the entire world does revolve around God, who has things in his hands. And that God is calling us to serve those around us in love. Some of us may have particular callings. I'm guessing that most of our callings and service have little to do with Donald Trump one way or another. But it's really hard to keep our focus. It's really hard to think that our own Kingdom is as real or as important as the political kingdom. It's really hard to stop our addiction to treating political figures as gods and treating people with a different opinion about politics as the enemy.
2 x
Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?

Valerie
Posts: 1015
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:59 am
Location: Medina OH
Affiliation: non-denominational

Re: Trump Wars

Postby Valerie » Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:10 am

Bootstrap wrote:
Valerie wrote:What ASTOUNDS me about those who seem to hate Trump- and call him 'evil' and want to restore 'dignity' to the White House are the same people who, when the first President Clinton was running for office- totally ignored all the reports about his marital infidelity- saying his personal life should not enter into the arena of discussion on what type of President he would be.


A perfect example of the Trump wars. Everything has to be turned into a fight between factions. And in the process, we can dismiss morality whenever there's an issue with our faction.

I thought Clinton should be impeached because moral character matters. I thought moral character still mattered under Trump. An awful lot of the Christian or political conservative critics of Trump felt the same way. Yes, there were people who could excuse this in their favorite candidate (Trump, Clinton, take your pick) while demonizing the candidate they didn't like (Trump, Clinton, take your pick). And if your candidate is on the hot spot, turn it into a fight, imply that anyone who cares about these things must be a hypocrite.

Back to the Kingdom of God ... can we agree that moral character matters? And can we agree that when we discuss Clinton's behavior and character, what matters is Clinton's behavior and character, and when we discuss Trump's behavior and character, what matters is Trump's behavior and character? There's no need to turn this into an attack on some hypothetical person who just might be hypocritical for not noticing equally on both sides.


The hypocrisy is what is being said now- I for one, was appreciative of who President Trump picked for his running mate & Vice President- Mike Pence who does have Godly values, the only one of a presidential team thus far to actively engage in pro-life and seeing what other values Trump was wanting to bring back to America- Neither candidate could win a 'morality' prize- but I guess I have been observing George Soros, Michael Moore, and the Clintons for long enough to realize their globalization agenda- just saying-

Back to Kingdom Christians-
0 x

Valerie
Posts: 1015
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:59 am
Location: Medina OH
Affiliation: non-denominational

Re: Trump Wars

Postby Valerie » Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:14 am

JimFoxvog wrote:
Valerie wrote:I simply was bringing up the hypocrisy of those who are critical of our POTUS- let's not pretend we are not interested in politics when virtually every poster here is quite informed and interested in what's happening.

Maybe it helps to make peace to note the hypocrisy is on both sides. Those outraged by Clinton's immoral behavior are content with Trump's. Maybe we need to attempt fairness, whether we agree or disagree with policies.

Lord, have mercy.


I don't agree with this, we are not content with any immorality- but Trump did not bring marital infidelity into the White House while serving the country- so we did not wish to see another Clinton administration. We will have to agree to disagree- all immorality is wrong and no one is defending Trump's past sins. We are all sinners in need of a savior, I just appreciate who he is choosing for his cabinet and the Godly people he is inviting into speaking into his life, and I haven't heard another POTUS say "I need God more than ever now". But again, if they take him out (as they are trying to do) we will at least have Pence who is someone with Godly character.
0 x

GaryK
Posts: 99
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2016 6:24 pm
Location: Georgia
Affiliation: Unaffiliated CAB

Re: Trump Wars

Postby GaryK » Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:07 am

Bootstrap wrote:
mike wrote:Stay out of such discussions.


But I think we need more than that. I think we need to actively discuss how we relate to politicized warring around us, because a large portion of the church is paralyzed by it. And I think we need to - carefully - examine ourselves and question each other about our own political warring.

I'd guess that this is at least as common a problem as sexual immorality. And while staying away from sexual immorality is important, if the church is full of it, it's not enough for an individual to stay out of it. The culture of the church needs to be changed. We need to build an understanding of why sexual immorality is wrong.

The same is true for political warring.

But I don't think the two are apples to apples comparisons. The New Testament is replete with teachings about sexual immorality and how to deal with it in the church. I'm not aware of the same sort of teachings about "political" warring.

Political warring will always be around regardless of how much time we spend trying to build an understanding of why political warring is wrong. The church has too much to do to in its realm to be involved in trying to straighten out the other.
2 x

Bootstrap
Posts: 2305
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:59 am
Affiliation: Kingdom Christian

Re: Trump Wars

Postby Bootstrap » Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:43 am

GaryK wrote:
Bootstrap wrote:The same is true for political warring.

But I don't think the two are apples to apples comparisons. The New Testament is replete with teachings about sexual immorality and how to deal with it in the church. I'm not aware of the same sort of teachings about "political" warring.

Political warring will always be around regardless of how much time we spend trying to build an understanding of why political warring is wrong. The church has too much to do to in its realm to be involved in trying to straighten out the other.


I don't agree yet, but let's explore that. I think the Bible has an awful lot to say about warring and factions and Jew versus Greek (Democrat versus Republican? Rural versus Urban? Trump lover versus Trump hater?). And I'm not talking about ending political warring outside the Kingdom, I'm talking about ending political warring inside the Kingdom.

Christians regularly engage in character assassination against other Christians who disagree with their political views. Often, they are just passing on memes they absorbed through social media. In some churches, people might be more willing to accept a marriage to a non-Christian than a marriage to someone who belongs to the wrong political party. Political campaigns consciously target Christian voters, and boy do they work hard to get us riled up.

Here on MD, political controversies are among Christians. Ignoring political warfare threads in the Kingdom doesn't seem like the right strategy for me. Worse, the clearest calls to action, here and in many other places, are political. If we stopped fighting about politics, what would we talk about? We had better get a lot better at answering that question.

And maybe we do a lot better in our churches. In some churches, the conversation after the service revolves around politics, not what was discussed in the sermon or what is going on in people's lives or how to serve others. One of the things I like about my current church is that we rarely hear that kind of talk after church or in our gatherings.
0 x
Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?

GaryK
Posts: 99
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2016 6:24 pm
Location: Georgia
Affiliation: Unaffiliated CAB

Re: Trump Wars

Postby GaryK » Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:17 am

Bootstrap wrote:
GaryK wrote:
Bootstrap wrote:The same is true for political warring.

But I don't think the two are apples to apples comparisons. The New Testament is replete with teachings about sexual immorality and how to deal with it in the church. I'm not aware of the same sort of teachings about "political" warring.

Political warring will always be around regardless of how much time we spend trying to build an understanding of why political warring is wrong. The church has too much to do to in its realm to be involved in trying to straighten out the other.


I don't agree yet, but let's explore that. I think the Bible has an awful lot to say about warring and factions and Jew versus Greek (Democrat versus Republican? Rural versus Urban? Trump lover versus Trump hater?). And I'm not talking about ending political warring outside the Kingdom, I'm talking about ending political warring inside the Kingdom.

If this is going on within the Kingdom there is much more going on than political warring. IMO it's a matter of mixed allegiance and unless this and other deeper issues are worked with as the real problem, political warring will continue.
Bootstrap wrote:Christians regularly engage in character assassination against other Christians who disagree with their political views. Often, they are just passing on memes they absorbed through social media. In some churches, people might be more willing to accept a marriage to a non-Christian than a marriage to someone who belongs to the wrong political party. Political campaigns consciously target Christian voters, and boy do they work hard to get us riled up.

I agree this is a problem and I think the best way to have credibility in trying to root this out is to not be involved in the political process by voting, etc.
Bootstrap wrote:Here on MD, political controversies are among Christians. Ignoring political warfare threads in the Kingdom doesn't seem like the right strategy for me. Worse, the clearest calls to action, here and in many other places, are political. If we stopped fighting about politics, what would we talk about? We had better get a lot better at answering that question.

Why don't you try it?
Bootstrap wrote:And maybe we do a lot better in our churches. In some churches, the conversation after the service revolves around politics, not what was discussed in the sermon or what is going on in people's lives or how to serve others. One of the things I like about my current church is that we rarely hear that kind of talk after church or in our gatherings.

I appreciate this about our church as well
2 x

Bootstrap
Posts: 2305
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:59 am
Affiliation: Kingdom Christian

Re: Trump Wars

Postby Bootstrap » Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:37 am

GaryK wrote:If this is going on within the Kingdom there is much more going on than political warring. IMO it's a matter of mixed allegiance and unless this and other deeper issues are worked with as the real problem, political warring will continue.


I absolutely agree. This is about finding our identity and calling as Christians, and returning to what Jesus said and did.

GaryK wrote:I agree this is a problem and I think the best way to have credibility in trying to root this out is to not be involved in the political process by voting, etc.


I can appreciate the witness of those who do not vote, but sometimes it seems that people strain at the gnat of voting and swallow the camel of political warring. Not you, Gary, I think you are very consistent here, but I do see people who do that.

GaryK wrote:
Bootstrap wrote:Here on MD, political controversies are among Christians. Ignoring political warfare threads in the Kingdom doesn't seem like the right strategy for me. Worse, the clearest calls to action, here and in many other places, are political. If we stopped fighting about politics, what would we talk about? We had better get a lot better at answering that question.

Why don't you try it?


I may not be trying it the right way - and I'm happy to learn how to do better - but I am definitely trying it. Please teach me if you have things I should learn, and let's learn from each other. I do see a difference between opposing political warring and taking sides in the political wars.

Maybe it starts with Paul's frequent approach of looking at who we are in Christ and who we are as God's children. It is not right that we, as God's children, take our identities from the political factions among us, often repeating the memes they give us and the words carefully designed by their marketing geniuses, and bite and devour each other.
0 x
Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?


Return to “Current Events and Politics”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest