Trump Wars

Events occurring and how they relate/affect Anabaptist faith and culture.
Martin
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2016 9:17 pm
Affiliation: Conservative Menno

Re: Trump Wars

Postby Martin » Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:30 pm

Valerie wrote:Not sure how you can't see how what I'm saying doesn't relate to the thread called "Trump Wars"-
Forgive me if it sounds like a politicized rant, this thread is a political one- and of course you don't know the same 'theys' that I do, you're not reading the same things that I am, none the less, I am reading them- and they are there-
I simply was bringing up the hypocrisy of those who are critical of our POTUS- let's not pretend we are not interested in politics when virtually every poster here is quite informed and interested in what's happening.
I know we are not 'of' this world, but we were put 'in' this world and if you're not surrounded by this hypocrisy, well God bless you, you are very fortunate to not be in constant ear shot of it. I'm somewhat surprised that people who claim to be Kingdom Christians would even enter these threads, unless it is just to re-emphasize how non involved we are, while at the same time, speaking much about it?

Valerie, do you vote?
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Valerie
Posts: 387
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:59 am
Affiliation: non-denominational

Re: Trump Wars

Postby Valerie » Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:29 pm

Martin wrote:
Valerie wrote:Not sure how you can't see how what I'm saying doesn't relate to the thread called "Trump Wars"-
Forgive me if it sounds like a politicized rant, this thread is a political one- and of course you don't know the same 'theys' that I do, you're not reading the same things that I am, none the less, I am reading them- and they are there-
I simply was bringing up the hypocrisy of those who are critical of our POTUS- let's not pretend we are not interested in politics when virtually every poster here is quite informed and interested in what's happening.
I know we are not 'of' this world, but we were put 'in' this world and if you're not surrounded by this hypocrisy, well God bless you, you are very fortunate to not be in constant ear shot of it. I'm somewhat surprised that people who claim to be Kingdom Christians would even enter these threads, unless it is just to re-emphasize how non involved we are, while at the same time, speaking much about it?

Valerie, do you vote?


Yes I do- keep in mind, at 59, and never have been exposed to Christians until 10 years ago when I first started learning Anabaptist theology/interpretation, that didn't vote- I felt it was my Christian duty- I still feel it is.
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Bootstrap
Posts: 1370
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:59 am
Affiliation: Kingdom Christian

Re: Trump Wars

Postby Bootstrap » Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:36 pm

Valerie wrote:What ASTOUNDS me about those who seem to hate Trump- and call him 'evil' and want to restore 'dignity' to the White House are the same people who, when the first President Clinton was running for office- totally ignored all the reports about his marital infidelity- saying his personal life should not enter into the arena of discussion on what type of President he would be.


A perfect example of the Trump wars. Everything has to be turned into a fight between factions. And in the process, we can dismiss morality whenever there's an issue with our faction.

I thought Clinton should be impeached because moral character matters. I thought moral character still mattered under Trump. An awful lot of the Christian or political conservative critics of Trump felt the same way. Yes, there were people who could excuse this in their favorite candidate (Trump, Clinton, take your pick) while demonizing the candidate they didn't like (Trump, Clinton, take your pick). And if your candidate is on the hot spot, turn it into a fight, imply that anyone who cares about these things must be a hypocrite.

Back to the Kingdom of God ... can we agree that moral character matters? And can we agree that when we discuss Clinton's behavior and character, what matters is Clinton's behavior and character, and when we discuss Trump's behavior and character, what matters is Trump's behavior and character? There's no need to turn this into an attack on some hypothetical person who just might be hypocritical for not noticing equally on both sides.
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Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?

Bootstrap
Posts: 1370
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:59 am
Affiliation: Kingdom Christian

Re: Trump Wars

Postby Bootstrap » Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:44 pm

temporal1 wrote:boot, if you are serious about ending the political part of your life, i will pray for you to be successful. it's no easy matter to turn away from deeply seated habits, it's serious business, and can be excruciatingly painful. i'm sure many would offer of themselves to help you.


I may not always succeed at this, but as I see it, an awful lot of my political posts are saying precisely, "no, Christianity is not your political faction". Some liberal Christians didn't like it when I said that on MennoNerds. Some conservative Christians don't like it when I say that here.

But I also suspect that each of us can seem very political to others when we don't think we're being political. And maybe we all deceive ourselves on that front sometimes. Whether or not I get it right, I can assure you that my goal is to reclaim biblical Christianity from the political battlefront.
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Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?

Bootstrap
Posts: 1370
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:59 am
Affiliation: Kingdom Christian

Re: Trump Wars

Postby Bootstrap » Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:47 pm

Valerie wrote:Not sure how you can't see how what I'm saying doesn't relate to the thread called "Trump Wars"-
Forgive me if it sounds like a politicized rant, this thread is a political one- and of course you don't know the same 'theys' that I do, you're not reading the same things that I am, none the less, I am reading them- and they are there-
I simply was bringing up the hypocrisy of those who are critical of our POTUS- let's not pretend we are not interested in politics when virtually every poster here is quite informed and interested in what's happening.


Might be worth taking a look at the text of the original post again, especially this part:

This thread isn't for settling those questions, it's for another issue. People are at each other's throats about Donald Trump. I've heard of spouses divorcing because of their political disagreements, and political affiliation now divides more than race or religion in America.

What is the place of a peacemaker in an America like this?


Let me say this emphatically: I don't think a peacemaker's role in the Trump Wars is to declare that any one faction is the right one.
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Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?

KingdomBuilder
Posts: 530
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:00 pm
Location: Seekersville, USA

Re: Trump Wars

Postby KingdomBuilder » Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:50 pm

Bootstrap wrote:Back to the Kingdom of God ... can we agree that moral character matters? And can we agree that when we discuss Clinton's behavior and character, what matters is Clinton's behavior and character, and when we discuss Trump's behavior and character, what matters is Trump's behavior and character? There's no need to turn this into an attack on some hypothetical person who just might be hypocritical for not noticing equally on both sides.



Agreeing. Can we take it a step farther and say that what really matters is the heart from which the behavior/ character comes?
Like I said though, we cannot truly know these folks. My aforementioned point may be a bit out there in that case.
So I suppose we look to the fruit and use discernment.
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Therefore let us be grateful for receiving a Kingdom that cannot be shaken
Hebrews 12:28

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JimFoxvog
Posts: 201
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Location: Northern Illinois
Affiliation: MCUSA

Re: Trump Wars

Postby JimFoxvog » Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:58 pm

Valerie wrote:I simply was bringing up the hypocrisy of those who are critical of our POTUS- let's not pretend we are not interested in politics when virtually every poster here is quite informed and interested in what's happening.

Maybe it helps to make peace to note the hypocrisy is on both sides. Those outraged by Clinton's immoral behavior are content with Trump's. Maybe we need to attempt fairness, whether we agree or disagree with policies.

Lord, have mercy.
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KingdomBuilder
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Re: Trump Wars

Postby KingdomBuilder » Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:10 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZj5nC42nHw

Here's one that this thread and it's posts made me think of. Listen, enjoy, and ponder.
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Therefore let us be grateful for receiving a Kingdom that cannot be shaken
Hebrews 12:28

Bootstrap
Posts: 1370
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:59 am
Affiliation: Kingdom Christian

Re: Trump Wars

Postby Bootstrap » Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:23 pm

JimFoxvog wrote:Maybe it helps to make peace to note the hypocrisy is on both sides. Those outraged by Clinton's immoral behavior are content with Trump's. Maybe we need to attempt fairness, whether we agree or disagree with policies.

Lord, have mercy.


Indeed. And the hypocrisy is also in each of us. So let's all discuss our shared hypocrisy, and pray to be delivered from it. Let's not discuss their hypocrisy, and why we are better than them.
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Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?

temporal1
Posts: 1075
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:09 pm
Affiliation: less than the least

Re: Trump Wars

Postby temporal1 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:59 am

temporal1 wrote:
mike wrote: Stay out of such discussions.

boot, if you are serious about ending the political part of your life, i will pray for you to be successful. it's no easy matter to turn away from deeply seated habits, it's serious business, and can be excruciatingly painful. i'm sure many would offer of themselves to help you.

it can be done, it's deeply personal, 'can't be done as a community, it requires daily commitment, often moment-to-moment commitment. everyone (i know) has something they personally struggle with, typically silently, never/rarely spoken. peace be with you.
i wanted to clarify about "community." i'll try.
community can be of great importance, when they affirm and support serious attempts at change.
this forum can be very helpful (as mike and others here patiently+consistently attempt to lead to better choices.)

i was thinking, it might be like learning to swim (?) .. it's far easier to learn from others, but the commitment and effort must be our own, no one can do it for us. riding a bike, similar.

it's very hard for anyone who does not know how to swim, or ride a bike, to teach these things.
years ago, a common saying was, "you wouldn't choose someone with a poor driving record for lessons on how to drive a car!"

occasionally, i visit my forum profile to check percentages of posts. that's a clue (for me.)

recently, i wondered about putting political discussions in a private sub-forum (?)
(i imagined) it could be open to any for participation, but would be away from public view.
i wondered how that would work. i imagine some benefits.

non-political current events could stay on open forum (?) ..
not lumping them together.

some members have described they formerly had addictions to politics. :(
i wondered, if having political discussions on this forum might be similar to drinking alcohol in the presence of former alcoholics? .. if this is the case, then, shame on us. (i'm not sure, and, not my decision.)

i did not mention this before, thinking it would not be of interest.

my offer stands. :)
i empathize with anyone who is attempting to reach for higher ground. it's a battle.

sigh. all-these-words, when mike said it best, first, and in just a few words. :)
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formerly Temporal1

“The most extraordinary thing in the world is an ordinary man and an ordinary woman and their ordinary children.” ― G.K. Chesterton


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