Bunny Trails: Politics

[Ken]

Joe Biden: Zero indictments and zero credible accusations of any wrongdoing.

Since the inauguration of Joe Biden, on Jan. 20, 2021 Biden has cost millions of people so much, here in this nation and abroad. His actions/policies, has brutally cost lives, emboldened dictators and empowered terrorists. His decisions has cost the lives of 13 brave service people in Afghanistan. His border policies have emboldened the cartel rapists of women and girls at the border. It has enriched the cartels and deliverers of deadly fentanyl. All that goes way beyond 91 felony indictments. How many people were brutally killed because foreign bully's see Biden as weak, a president whose policies are of such that evil dictators know they can take full advantage of them? Now how many brutal wars were emboldened or empowered by those 91 indictments ? How many wars were started between 2016 and 2021? How many women and children were raped and killed by evil people who are funded by a nation Biden empowered?

Yes there are no indictments, but there is plenty of blood on Biden's hands.

Those are arguments about policy. People can and do make similar hyperbolic political statements about every single president in American history.

They have nothing to do with Hunter Biden or whether Joe Biden has committed any impeachable offenses. Or for that matter, Trump's moral fitness for office.

[Szdfan]

Joe Biden: Zero indictments and zero credible accusations of any wrongdoing.

Since the inauguration of Joe Biden, on Jan. 20, 2021 Biden has cost millions of people so much, here in this nation and abroad. His actions/policies, has brutally cost lives, emboldened dictators and empowered terrorists. His decisions has cost the lives of 13 brave service people in Afghanistan. His border policies have emboldened the cartel rapists of women and girls at the border. It has enriched the cartels and deliverers of deadly fentanyl. All that goes way beyond 91 felony indictments. How many people were brutally killed because foreign bully's see Biden as weak, a president whose policies are of such that evil dictators know they can take full advantage of them? Now how many brutal wars were emboldened or empowered by those 91 indictments ? How many wars were started between 2016 and 2021? How many women and children were raped and killed by evil people who are funded by a nation Biden empowered?

Yes there are no indictments, but there is plenty of blood on Biden's hands.

But none of this has anything to do with whether Biden has done anything illegal. This seems to be a disagreement about policy and people disagree about policy all the time. This is why we have elections.

Trump isn't in court because of his policies, Trump was indicted because he allegedly did illegal things.

[JimFoxvog]

Biden has cost millions of people so much, here in this nation and abroad. His actions/policies, has brutally cost lives, emboldened dictators and empowered terrorists. His decisions has cost the lives of 13 brave service people in Afghanistan.
...
Yes there are no indictments, but there is plenty of blood on Biden's hands.

The one I copied from the list has some basis in fact. These people were wrongly killed in Afghanistan. But I think what we need to compare this with is how many US and Afghani people would have been killed if the US stayed. I suspect it would have been more.

[Ken]

Biden has cost millions of people so much, here in this nation and abroad. His actions/policies, has brutally cost lives, emboldened dictators and empowered terrorists. His decisions has cost the lives of 13 brave service people in Afghanistan.
...
Yes there are no indictments, but there is plenty of blood on Biden's hands.

The one I copied from the list has some basis in fact. These people were wrongly killed in Afghanistan. But I think what we need to compare this with is how many US and Afghani people would have been killed if the US stayed. I suspect it would have been more.

What is the basis in fact?

Trump made the decision and set the timetable for withdrawal from Afghanistan through treaty negotiations with the Taliban. Biden didn't really any wiggle room when it came to withdrawing from Afghanistan. Not without restarting hostilities with the Taliban which would have cost many thousands more lives.

The actual attack was a ISIS suicide bomber, not the Taliban. ISIS and the Taliban are arch enemies. I'm curious to what extent Grace thinks the day-to-day details of military operations such as this are managed out of the Oval Office rather than the Pentagon and in this case USCENTCOM: https://www.centcom.mil/ And if she thinks that civilians in the White House SHOULD be micro-managing the day-to-day details of military operations half a world away. And with Grace's military expertise, which specific White House decisions led to this event and what they should have done differently.

[JimFoxvog]

The one I copied from the list has some basis in fact. These people were wrongly killed in Afghanistan. But I think what we need to compare this with is how many US and Afghani people would have been killed if the US stayed. I suspect it would have been more.

What is the basis in fact?

The facts, as far as I know, are that these people were killed during the withdrawal. It is possible that if the withdrawal had been handled differently, fewer people might have been killed. So, speculative, but reasonable to a degree, unlike the other items on the list.

Yes, what you say adds valuable context. No disagreement from me.

[Ken]

The one I copied from the list has some basis in fact. These people were wrongly killed in Afghanistan. But I think what we need to compare this with is how many US and Afghani people would have been killed if the US stayed. I suspect it would have been more.

What is the basis in fact?

The facts, as far as I know, are that these people were killed during the withdrawal. It is possible that if the withdrawal had been handled differently, fewer people might have been killed. So, speculative, but reasonable to a degree, unlike the other items on the list.

Yes, what you say adds valuable context. No disagreement from me.

Note, I'm not blaming Trump either.

Military withdrawals in the middle of a conflict are ALWAYS chaotic. It comes with the territory and and is part of the reason the US stayed in Afghanistan for 20+ years. No one wanted the blame for "losing Afghanistan" despite the fact that it was never ours to "lose" in the first place. I give both Trump and Biden credit for the courage to go against the foreign policy establishment and pull out of there despite knowing it would result in chaos.

I'm also not claiming the withdrawal was handled perfectly. I expect there is always room for improvement in these sorts of things. But if one wants to criticize without sounding a fool, then one needs to explain exactly what mistakes were made and how things should have been doing differently. I have ever heard a anyone make that argument in any sort of coherent and thoughtful manner.

In point of fact, the Biden Administration accomplished one of the largest airlifts in history and oversaw the evacuation of over 122,000 people on over 800 civilian and military flights from a city occupied by the Taliban over a 10-day period. And aside from the one ISUS suicide bombing outside the gates of the airport, it was a very seamless operation.

Again, I would attribute that mostly to the professionalism of the US military and not administration officials working in the White House half a world away.

[temporal1]

What is it with the Biden children not paying their “fair share” of taxes?

Https://nypost.com/2023/12/18/news/bide ... ents-show/

Dec 17 / NY POST / FBI secretly taped James Biden as it probed attorney who paid $100K to his consulting firm: report
https://nypost.com/2023/12/17/news/fbi- ... -congress/

Dec 18 / James Biden given loan, didn't provide services to Americore despite promises to use last name, trustee says
https://www.aol.com/news/james-biden-gi ... ccounter=1

Paywall: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... t-brother/

White House Correspondents' Association
https://whca.press › 2023/04PDF
James Biden — presidential brother, family helper, political wild card
James and Hunter Biden were in the midst of a lucrative deal with. Chinese executives at the time, while Joe Biden was out of public service for the first time ...

WHCA / PDF:

James Biden — presidential brother, family helper, political wild card
President Biden’s brother James is known in the family as the one who’s always ready to help. But he also has a history of business dealings that resulted in recriminations and lawsuits.

2020 / How Frank Biden leveraged his famous name for business gain
"They brought him in for his name," one critic said of Frank Biden.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/frank-b ... d=68202529

[Grace]

I'm curious to what extent Grace thinks the day-to-day details of military operations such as this are managed out of the Oval Office rather than the Pentagon and in this case USCENTCOM: https://www.centcom.mil/ And if she thinks that civilians in the White House SHOULD be micro-managing the day-to-day details of military operations half a world away. And with Grace's military expertise, which specific White House decisions led to this event and what they should have done differently.

Board guidelines:

-Use I statements. Speak for yourself and don't decide what someone else is meaning to say or exaggerate what someone else posts.
-Do not state that someone else is wrong. State your own thoughts and opinions.
-Do not use extreme sarcasm to minimize another's comments or opinions.
-Do not take another's statement and distort it to an extreme.

Be thankful I am not a moderator.

[steve-in-kville]

Be thankful I am not a moderator.

I'd vote for you

[Robert]

I'm curious to what extent Grace thinks the day-to-day details of military operations such as this are managed out of the Oval Office rather than the Pentagon and in this case USCENTCOM: https://www.centcom.mil/ And if she thinks that civilians in the White House SHOULD be micro-managing the day-to-day details of military operations half a world away. And with Grace's military expertise, which specific White House decisions led to this event and what they should have done differently.

Ken, this is quote passive aggressive. We can and are expected to do better. Consider this an informal warning and please knock the edge off the discussions. Ask honest and fair questions to real people. This is just game playing and does not lead to better communication.