Islamist Ideology & Its Threat

Events occurring and how they relate/affect Anabaptist faith and culture.
Josh
Posts: 2057
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:23 pm

Re: Islamist Ideology & Its Threat

Postby Josh » Sat Feb 11, 2017 8:19 am

Does it really concern the kingdom Christian what the actions of governments do? We can't change them, and ultimately we are supposed to believe God is in charge and is ordaining what kings and others in authority do.
0 x

Martin
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2016 9:17 pm
Affiliation: Conservative Menno

Re: Islamist Ideology & Its Threat

Postby Martin » Sat Feb 11, 2017 8:37 am

Josh wrote:So, because white people did bad things in the 1600s, white people in the 2000s can't ask to live in a stable society? How does that make sense?
I wish bad things stopped in the 1600's. It's the height of irony, but go ahead and throw history to the wind.
0 x

Josh
Posts: 2057
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:23 pm

Re: Islamist Ideology & Its Threat

Postby Josh » Sat Feb 11, 2017 8:44 am

Martin wrote:
Josh wrote:So, because white people did bad things in the 1600s, white people in the 2000s can't ask to live in a stable society? How does that make sense?
I wish bad things stopped in the 1600's. It's the height of irony, but go ahead and throw history to the wind.


Part of a kingdom Christian perspective is that God calls all tribes, nations, and tongues to follow him, and that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

The perspective that white people are unusually bad and bear more responsibility than any other people group isn't one I can back up with scripture.
2 x

MaxPC
Posts: 1179
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:09 pm
Location: Full time RVers
Affiliation: Catholic
Contact:

Re: Islamist Ideology & Its Threat

Postby MaxPC » Sat Feb 11, 2017 8:58 am

Judas Maccabeus wrote:
MaxPC wrote:
Judas Maccabeus wrote: Back in the day I got free Arabic lesions from them.
J.M.


Were they painful? Did you see a doctor? :mrgreen:

No. but typing on a cellphone is.
J.M.

I suffer from the same condition. :lol:
0 x
Max (aka Plain Catholic)
Psalm 105

Judas Maccabeus
Posts: 390
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 11:13 am
Location: Maryland
Affiliation: Con. Menno.

Re: Islamist Ideology & Its Threat

Postby Judas Maccabeus » Sat Feb 11, 2017 9:24 am

Josh wrote:If an area becomes predominantly populated with people from Pakistan, it will start to be like Pakistan, whether for good or for bad. So in the UK you now have things like honour killings, arranged cousin marriages, and Rothertham.

If we accept a lot of refugees from specific countries, they will eventually cluster with other refugees with whom they share a culture, language, and religion. Eventually these enclaves will look very much like the places they came from.

My question is how useful helping to facilitate that process is.


You mean like Little Italy, Greektown, Little Havana and Chinatown? Immigrants have always done this, particularly in large eastern cities. Why do you see this as a problem. As for me, I would miss the food :D


J.M.
0 x

Josh
Posts: 2057
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:23 pm

Re: Islamist Ideology & Its Threat

Postby Josh » Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:12 am

Judas Maccabeus wrote:
Josh wrote:If an area becomes predominantly populated with people from Pakistan, it will start to be like Pakistan, whether for good or for bad. So in the UK you now have things like honour killings, arranged cousin marriages, and Rothertham.

If we accept a lot of refugees from specific countries, they will eventually cluster with other refugees with whom they share a culture, language, and religion. Eventually these enclaves will look very much like the places they came from.

My question is how useful helping to facilitate that process is.


You mean like Little Italy, Greektown, Little Havana and Chinatown? Immigrants have always done this, particularly in large eastern cities. Why do you see this as a problem. As for me, I would miss the food :D


J.M.


I see more Rotherthams as a problem.
0 x

Dan Z
Posts: 244
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2016 11:20 am
Location: Central Minnesota
Affiliation: CMC

Re: Islamist Ideology & Its Threat

Postby Dan Z » Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:36 am

Josh wrote:Does it really concern the kingdom Christian what the actions of governments do?


Josh...I understand where you are coming from here, and for the most part I share your view...but with limits.

As a Kingdom Christian the actions of governments concern me when they overstep their ordained bounds and become harmful - when they threaten the life and well-being of my neighbor. At this point, the greatest commandment trumps Romans 13.

We can't change them, and ultimately we are supposed to believe God is in charge and is ordaining what kings and others in authority do.


I don't take such a fatalistic view...nor do I think it is an especially biblical one.

First, while I agree strongly that we shouldn't try to change their nature (i.e. turn them into Christian entities), or worse yet, co-opt the government's power for our own ends, there is a long biblical tradition both in the OT and in the NT of shining a light onto darkness - of speaking the truth in love. This is one of the ways we bear witness to a better way - the way of Christ. And while God certainly is in charge, we must recognize that kings do evil and abominable things - furthermore, both scripture and history tell us that God often chooses to work through his children to counter evil and injustice. I think that is the nature of being salt & light.

I'm honestly not advocating for political activism here...and I am most definitely not promoting partisan political involvement (getting into bed with Caesar is a bad idea) - but I also think there is a danger in an attitude of fatalistic passivity that does not speak out or act in the face of wrong and injustice, especially when it is perpetrated against "the least of these." Our light does not belong under a bushel.
1 x

Josh
Posts: 2057
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:23 pm

Re: Islamist Ideology & Its Threat

Postby Josh » Sat Feb 11, 2017 11:03 am

"Threaten the life and well being of my neighbour?"

That gets tricky. A lot of my neighbours think letting Muslim refugees in will threaten their well being (and given events in Europe as of late, I can understand why they think that).
1 x

Dan Z
Posts: 244
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2016 11:20 am
Location: Central Minnesota
Affiliation: CMC

Re: Islamist Ideology & Its Threat

Postby Dan Z » Sat Feb 11, 2017 11:46 am

Josh wrote:"Threaten the life and well being of my neighbour?"

That gets tricky. A lot of my neighbours think letting Muslim refugees in will threaten their well being (and given events in Europe as of late, I can understand why they think that).


I was talking in general terms - pointing out that non-involvement as a matter of principle is a position with serious limitations.

I do agree by the way...it does get tricky.

The issue of immigration is very complex.

Furthermore, I recognize there is a danger of over-rationalizing any issue, and justifying involvement in all kinds of political causes ("that tax law harms my neighbor" or "Obamacare harms my neighbor"). Pretty soon we might find ourselves sucked into involvement with a Kingdom that is not ours. I think conscience...prudence...prayer...and discernment should all be at play here before we weigh in, particularly on any politically charged issue.
0 x

Szdfan
Posts: 47
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2016 11:34 am
Affiliation: MCUSA

Re: Islamist Ideology & Its Threat

Postby Szdfan » Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:35 pm

I came across this piece this morning that makes an important point. In the debate over Muslim immigration, there's a lack of Muslim voices in the media to discuss an issue that impacts them.

Prime-time cable news shows virtually ignored Muslim voices when they hosted guests to discuss the fallout from President Donald Trump’s Muslim ban. This failure fits into a larger media pattern of ignoring Muslims when discussing issues that are particularly impactful to them, while at the same time painting false portraits based on stereotypes. Given how few Americans actually know a Muslim person — and that the religion is already incredibly vilified — cable news would do better to follow the precedent set by print media and highlight personal stories from Muslims who have been impacted by the ban.


In the week after Trump signed the executive order, prime-time cable news programs hosted 176 guests (some repeat) for significant discussions about the policy, but only 14 guest appearances were Muslim. CNN hosted seven Muslim guests while MSNBC hosted two. Fox News hosted five Muslims, all during the February 3 edition of The First 100 Days. Of CNN’s guests, anchor Fareed Zakaria accounted for two of the seven appearances.


Image

This failure falls into a broader pattern of cable news neglecting to present representative voices, especially of Muslims. In the 24 hours after the June 12, 2016, mass shooting in Orlando, FL, in which a Muslim man killed 49 people and injured 50 after opening fire at an LGBTQ nightclub, cable news hosted only a few Muslim guests. In the month after the election, only 21 percent of the guests who appeared on evening cable news to discuss Islam were Muslim.

A 2014 Pew Study found that only 38 percent of Americans know someone who is Muslim, and it’s likely that even fewer know anyone impacted by Trump’s ban. Thus for many Americans, media portrayals are the only way they can get to know the Muslim community, yet the media often falsely frame Muslims as criminals. A 2015 YouGov poll found that 55 percent of Americans have a “somewhat unfavorable” or “very unfavorable” opinion of Islam, while 50 percent said they understand the religion “not too well” or “not well at all.”


I think the fact that many of us don't know Muslims personally or even are exposed to their perspectives and experiences influences how we understand Islam. What are our primary sources for understanding the Islamic world? Are we paying attention to what Muslims say about themselves? Do we pay attention to immigrant stories? Or are we relying on stereotypes? There are 1.6 billion Muslims in the world, or 23% of the world's population. Is Islam as monolithic as we treat it?
1 x


Return to “Current Events and Politics”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest