Islamist Ideology & Its Threat
- Josh
- Posts: 24103
- Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:23 pm
- Location: 1000' ASL
- Affiliation: The church of God
Re: Islamist Ideology & Its Threat
Does it really concern the kingdom Christian what the actions of governments do? We can't change them, and ultimately we are supposed to believe God is in charge and is ordaining what kings and others in authority do.
0 x
Re: Islamist Ideology & Its Threat
I wish bad things stopped in the 1600's. It's the height of irony, but go ahead and throw history to the wind.Josh wrote:So, because white people did bad things in the 1600s, white people in the 2000s can't ask to live in a stable society? How does that make sense?
0 x
- Josh
- Posts: 24103
- Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:23 pm
- Location: 1000' ASL
- Affiliation: The church of God
Re: Islamist Ideology & Its Threat
Part of a kingdom Christian perspective is that God calls all tribes, nations, and tongues to follow him, and that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.Martin wrote:I wish bad things stopped in the 1600's. It's the height of irony, but go ahead and throw history to the wind.Josh wrote:So, because white people did bad things in the 1600s, white people in the 2000s can't ask to live in a stable society? How does that make sense?
The perspective that white people are unusually bad and bear more responsibility than any other people group isn't one I can back up with scripture.
0 x
-
- Posts: 9082
- Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:09 pm
- Location: Former full time RVers
- Affiliation: PlainRomanCatholic
- Contact:
Re: Islamist Ideology & Its Threat
I suffer from the same condition.Judas Maccabeus wrote:No. but typing on a cellphone is.MaxPC wrote:Were they painful? Did you see a doctor?Judas Maccabeus wrote: Back in the day I got free Arabic lesions from them.
J.M.
J.M.
0 x
Max (Plain Catholic)
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
-
- Posts: 3960
- Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 11:13 am
- Location: Maryland
- Affiliation: Con. Menno.
Re: Islamist Ideology & Its Threat
You mean like Little Italy, Greektown, Little Havana and Chinatown? Immigrants have always done this, particularly in large eastern cities. Why do you see this as a problem. As for me, I would miss the foodJosh wrote:If an area becomes predominantly populated with people from Pakistan, it will start to be like Pakistan, whether for good or for bad. So in the UK you now have things like honour killings, arranged cousin marriages, and Rothertham.
If we accept a lot of refugees from specific countries, they will eventually cluster with other refugees with whom they share a culture, language, and religion. Eventually these enclaves will look very much like the places they came from.
My question is how useful helping to facilitate that process is.
J.M.
0 x
- Josh
- Posts: 24103
- Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:23 pm
- Location: 1000' ASL
- Affiliation: The church of God
Re: Islamist Ideology & Its Threat
I see more Rotherthams as a problem.Judas Maccabeus wrote:You mean like Little Italy, Greektown, Little Havana and Chinatown? Immigrants have always done this, particularly in large eastern cities. Why do you see this as a problem. As for me, I would miss the foodJosh wrote:If an area becomes predominantly populated with people from Pakistan, it will start to be like Pakistan, whether for good or for bad. So in the UK you now have things like honour killings, arranged cousin marriages, and Rothertham.
If we accept a lot of refugees from specific countries, they will eventually cluster with other refugees with whom they share a culture, language, and religion. Eventually these enclaves will look very much like the places they came from.
My question is how useful helping to facilitate that process is.
J.M.
0 x
- Dan Z
- Posts: 2653
- Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2016 11:20 am
- Location: Central Minnesota
- Affiliation: Conservative Menno
Re: Islamist Ideology & Its Threat
Josh...I understand where you are coming from here, and for the most part I share your view...but with limits.Josh wrote:Does it really concern the kingdom Christian what the actions of governments do?
As a Kingdom Christian the actions of governments concern me when they overstep their ordained bounds and become harmful - when they threaten the life and well-being of my neighbor. At this point, the greatest commandment trumps Romans 13.
I don't take such a fatalistic view...nor do I think it is an especially biblical one.We can't change them, and ultimately we are supposed to believe God is in charge and is ordaining what kings and others in authority do.
First, while I agree strongly that we shouldn't try to change their nature (i.e. turn them into Christian entities), or worse yet, co-opt the government's power for our own ends, there is a long biblical tradition both in the OT and in the NT of shining a light onto darkness - of speaking the truth in love. This is one of the ways we bear witness to a better way - the way of Christ. And while God certainly is in charge, we must recognize that kings do evil and abominable things - furthermore, both scripture and history tell us that God often chooses to work through his children to counter evil and injustice. I think that is the nature of being salt & light.
I'm honestly not advocating for political activism here...and I am most definitely not promoting partisan political involvement (getting into bed with Caesar is a bad idea) - but I also think there is a danger in an attitude of fatalistic passivity that does not speak out or act in the face of wrong and injustice, especially when it is perpetrated against "the least of these." Our light does not belong under a bushel.
0 x
- Josh
- Posts: 24103
- Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:23 pm
- Location: 1000' ASL
- Affiliation: The church of God
Re: Islamist Ideology & Its Threat
"Threaten the life and well being of my neighbour?"
That gets tricky. A lot of my neighbours think letting Muslim refugees in will threaten their well being (and given events in Europe as of late, I can understand why they think that).
That gets tricky. A lot of my neighbours think letting Muslim refugees in will threaten their well being (and given events in Europe as of late, I can understand why they think that).
0 x
- Dan Z
- Posts: 2653
- Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2016 11:20 am
- Location: Central Minnesota
- Affiliation: Conservative Menno
Re: Islamist Ideology & Its Threat
I was talking in general terms - pointing out that non-involvement as a matter of principle is a position with serious limitations.Josh wrote:"Threaten the life and well being of my neighbour?"
That gets tricky. A lot of my neighbours think letting Muslim refugees in will threaten their well being (and given events in Europe as of late, I can understand why they think that).
I do agree by the way...it does get tricky.
The issue of immigration is very complex.
Furthermore, I recognize there is a danger of over-rationalizing any issue, and justifying involvement in all kinds of political causes ("that tax law harms my neighbor" or "Obamacare harms my neighbor"). Pretty soon we might find ourselves sucked into involvement with a Kingdom that is not ours. I think conscience...prudence...prayer...and discernment should all be at play here before we weigh in, particularly on any politically charged issue.
0 x
-
- Posts: 4280
- Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2016 11:34 am
- Location: The flat part of Colorado
- Affiliation: MCUSA
Re: Islamist Ideology & Its Threat
I came across this piece this morning that makes an important point. In the debate over Muslim immigration, there's a lack of Muslim voices in the media to discuss an issue that impacts them.
Prime-time cable news shows virtually ignored Muslim voices when they hosted guests to discuss the fallout from President Donald Trump’s Muslim ban. This failure fits into a larger media pattern of ignoring Muslims when discussing issues that are particularly impactful to them, while at the same time painting false portraits based on stereotypes. Given how few Americans actually know a Muslim person — and that the religion is already incredibly vilified — cable news would do better to follow the precedent set by print media and highlight personal stories from Muslims who have been impacted by the ban.
In the week after Trump signed the executive order, prime-time cable news programs hosted 176 guests (some repeat) for significant discussions about the policy, but only 14 guest appearances were Muslim. CNN hosted seven Muslim guests while MSNBC hosted two. Fox News hosted five Muslims, all during the February 3 edition of The First 100 Days. Of CNN’s guests, anchor Fareed Zakaria accounted for two of the seven appearances.
I think the fact that many of us don't know Muslims personally or even are exposed to their perspectives and experiences influences how we understand Islam. What are our primary sources for understanding the Islamic world? Are we paying attention to what Muslims say about themselves? Do we pay attention to immigrant stories? Or are we relying on stereotypes? There are 1.6 billion Muslims in the world, or 23% of the world's population. Is Islam as monolithic as we treat it?This failure falls into a broader pattern of cable news neglecting to present representative voices, especially of Muslims. In the 24 hours after the June 12, 2016, mass shooting in Orlando, FL, in which a Muslim man killed 49 people and injured 50 after opening fire at an LGBTQ nightclub, cable news hosted only a few Muslim guests. In the month after the election, only 21 percent of the guests who appeared on evening cable news to discuss Islam were Muslim.
A 2014 Pew Study found that only 38 percent of Americans know someone who is Muslim, and it’s likely that even fewer know anyone impacted by Trump’s ban. Thus for many Americans, media portrayals are the only way they can get to know the Muslim community, yet the media often falsely frame Muslims as criminals. A 2015 YouGov poll found that 55 percent of Americans have a “somewhat unfavorable” or “very unfavorable” opinion of Islam, while 50 percent said they understand the religion “not too well” or “not well at all.”
0 x
“It’s easy to make everything a conspiracy when you don’t know how anything works.” — Brandon L. Bradford