The ideal immigration/border policy

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mike
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The ideal immigration/border policy

Postby mike » Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:27 am

I have been observing all the discussion here and elsewhere about immigration and border policy with Christians and Anabaptist Christians on all sides of the debate, triggered of course by Trump's executive order on immigration.

I have a question that I would enjoy seeing answered in a single short paragraph by those of you who have commented on one side or another.

What in your mind would be the ideal immigration and border policy for the United States?

*for now, no debate - just short single paragraph answers.
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temporal1
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Re: The ideal immigration/border policy

Postby temporal1 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 2:37 pm

you .. have great hope for us/in us. :blah:
looking for King Soloman hats ? ..
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mike
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Re: The ideal immigration/border policy

Postby mike » Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:01 pm

temporal1 wrote:you .. have great hope for us/in us. :blah:
looking for King Soloman hats ? ..


I'm just curious what people have to say when they aren't attacking the viewpoint they don't agree with. But maybe it was just a media-driven topic of the week that's already off everybody's radar. :mrgreen:
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Remember the prisoners, as though you were in prison with them, and the mistreated, as though you yourselves were suffering bodily. -Heb. 13:3

Josh
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Re: The ideal immigration/border policy

Postby Josh » Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:34 pm

Answering a question like this is like trying to answer "What would be an ideal system of public schools?" or "What would be an ideal system of law enforcement, courts, and punishment?"

Such questions and answers lie outside of the domain of the kingdom Christian; no matter what solution we pursue, we will always find that as kingdom citizens we find major flaws with any system. Once again, we find we are called to be pilgrims and strangers, and that we stop being citizens of Jesus' kingdom once we start seeking naturalisation in our host country.
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mike
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Re: The ideal immigration/border policy

Postby mike » Tue Feb 07, 2017 4:03 pm

Josh wrote:Answering a question like this is like trying to answer "What would be an ideal system of public schools?" or "What would be an ideal system of law enforcement, courts, and punishment?"

Such questions and answers lie outside of the domain of the kingdom Christian; no matter what solution we pursue, we will always find that as kingdom citizens we find major flaws with any system. Once again, we find we are called to be pilgrims and strangers, and that we stop being citizens of Jesus' kingdom once we start seeking naturalisation in our host country.


I couldn't agree more. If I had to write such an answer I hardly know what to say. But there has been so much discussion and disagreement that I was curious what folks on here who have been debating it would have to say.
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Remember the prisoners, as though you were in prison with them, and the mistreated, as though you yourselves were suffering bodily. -Heb. 13:3

Bootstrap
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Re: The ideal immigration/border policy

Postby Bootstrap » Tue Feb 07, 2017 4:39 pm

mike wrote:I couldn't agree more. If I had to write such an answer I hardly know what to say. But there has been so much discussion and disagreement that I was curious what folks on here who have been debating it would have to say.


I think it would be a lot easier to discuss what our policy has been, what that has meant, what the executive order does to change it, and how that affects things. That's a much smaller question, and easier to discuss.

But I also wonder if it wouldn't be better to stop trying to discuss grand policy and discuss what these things mean to us personally, discussing fears and feelings and hopes and relationships and how they are impacted by these things. So many of the things we discuss feel like proxies for some other thing closer to us that we are nervous about discussing.
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RZehr
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Re: The ideal immigration/border policy

Postby RZehr » Tue Feb 07, 2017 4:52 pm

An ideal immigration/border policy really depends on what a country is trying to achieve. And a problem this country has going on, is that people are trying to achieve different goals, while employing border and immigration policy to those very different ends.
It seems to me that the general principles on this subject, are agreed upon by the vast a majority of the people in this country. The divisions begin to appear primarily in the implementation of the principles, the political optics, with the different goals of the people.
I'd say a few basic, general principles that seem alright to me, as a US citizen are:
- Allow decent people to immigrate into your country
- Don't allow undecent people to immigrate into your country
- Don't let people sneak into your country
- Encourage & assist integration
- Streamline as much as possible
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Bootstrap
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Re: The ideal immigration/border policy

Postby Bootstrap » Tue Feb 07, 2017 5:00 pm

RZehr wrote:It seems to me that the general principles on this subject, are agreed upon by the vast a majority of the people in this country. The divisions begin to appear primarily in the implementation of the principles, the political optics, with the different goals of the people.


I would agree.

RZehr wrote:I'd say a few basic, general principles that seem alright to me, as a US citizen are:
- Allow decent people to immigrate into your country
- Don't allow undecent people to immigrate into your country
- Don't let people sneak into your country
- Encourage & assist integration
- Streamline as much as possible


I would add:

- We are an immigrant nation, and that is a big part of our identity as a country.
- Many of us belong to groups of immigrants that were once very controversial in the United States - German, Irish, Catholics, pacifist or non-resistant Christians, etc. We should have compassion on the current generation of controversial immigrants.
- We can't let everyone in.
- We can't kick everyone out who managed to sneak in some time in the distant past without being overly cruel
- Focus on getting people that we need to help our economy - doctors, lawyers, computer scientists, entrepreneurs, farm workers, construction workers, etc.
- Do "our share" in taking in refugees from conflict situations, negotiating what our share is with other countries that can provide for them.
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mike
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Re: The ideal immigration/border policy

Postby mike » Tue Feb 07, 2017 5:05 pm

Bootstrap wrote:
mike wrote:I couldn't agree more. If I had to write such an answer I hardly know what to say. But there has been so much discussion and disagreement that I was curious what folks on here who have been debating it would have to say.


I think it would be a lot easier to discuss what our policy has been, what that has meant, what the executive order does to change it, and how that affects things. That's a much smaller question, and easier to discuss.

But I also wonder if it wouldn't be better to stop trying to discuss grand policy and discuss what these things mean to us personally, discussing fears and feelings and hopes and relationships and how they are impacted by these things. So many of the things we discuss feel like proxies for some other thing closer to us that we are nervous about discussing.


I totally agree with this last paragraph. However, the discussion has primarily been about pushback against and defense of Trump's order, and I'm interested in what the various parties' views would look like presented as a positive statement rather than a negative critique. I like what you and Rzehr have posted. That's what I was looking for.
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Remember the prisoners, as though you were in prison with them, and the mistreated, as though you yourselves were suffering bodily. -Heb. 13:3

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lesterb
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Re: The ideal immigration/border policy

Postby lesterb » Tue Feb 07, 2017 5:49 pm

Okay, in light of the last several posts, here are the feelings of a Canadian.

We live about 45 minutes from the US border. I have, over the years, been asked various times to attend meetings in the US. Sometimes this involved speaking there. Often it meant that my expenses were paid, and sometimes even my time. Crossing the border was always an issue, until all of a sudden I started just getting waved through, almost. I had been called in for secondary inspection at the airport. Did the supervisor put a note on my profile? I don't know.

But now I have no idea what to expect. What are the chances of getting turned back? According to what I've been reading it could be a good possibility.
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